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View Full Version : Confirmed: Chris Kreider Seeking $2.8M, NYR Offers 2-Year $4.10M Deal; $2.05AAV



CreaseCrusader91
07-21-2014, 09:49 AM
:tweet:@FriedgeHNIC
Kreider (NYR) requests $2.8M. Rangers have offered a two-year deal at $1.9, then $2.2.

Shanahammer
07-21-2014, 09:51 AM
2.8 isn't that unreasonable. I think he gets close to what B. Schenn got in Philly.

Future
07-21-2014, 09:52 AM
I'd be more than happy to meet him in the middle somewhere around $2.5

CreaseCrusader91
07-21-2014, 09:58 AM
Is sign him at $2.8 for 4 years.

Phil in Absentia
07-21-2014, 09:58 AM
The good thing here is, despite arbitration looming, his ask is actually not an absurd figure that can't be worked with, so even if he ends up at the highest possible number of $2.8M, there should still be plenty of wiggle room to figure out the remaining salaries needed for Zuccarello and Brassard.

I had him at $2.25M over two years myself.

Phil in Absentia
07-21-2014, 09:58 AM
Is sign him at $2.8 for 4 years.

He's not taking that. No incentive to give up years like that at such a fraction of the cost he might make two years from now coming out of a bridge.

We're talking minimum $4.5M (Pacioretty contract) once he gets to that point.

CreaseCrusader91
07-21-2014, 10:00 AM
He's not taking that. No incentive to give up years like that at such a fraction of the cost he might make two years from now coming out of a bridge.

We're talking minimum $4.5M (Pacioretty contract) once he gets to that point.

Wishful thinking. However, I think he could be had at a palatable number of a 4 year deal.

Pete
07-21-2014, 10:07 AM
I don't see why either the team or the player would want to commit for 4 years, at this point. Almost every player outside of Staal, Hank and McD have gotten bridged, in recent memory.

Dubi
Cally
AA
Del Zotto
Hagelin
Girardi
Tyutin


Why would Kreider (who simply doesn't have the NHL resume that the others do) get offered, or take, a 4 year deal? Again, we don't know what he is yet, over 82 games.

AmericanJesus
07-21-2014, 10:09 AM
I'd hate a 4 year deal. He'd be a 27 year old UFA at that point. A bridge is exactly how you handle someone like Kreider. He's not ready for a 6 year deal that buys 2 UFA years and anything over 2 puts him in the Brassard/MZA situation where arbitration means a 1 year award, giving him maximum RFA leverage. So lock him up for 2 years at around $2.5M and then work on a long term deal when he's 25 and has shown continued growth. Had he gone the McDonagh route and had solid season after solid season, I might want a long term deal now, but he didn't.

Phil in Absentia
07-21-2014, 10:11 AM
I'd hate a 4 year deal. He'd be a 27 year old UFA at that point. A bridge is exactly how you handle someone like Kreider. He's not ready for a 6 year deal that buys 2 UFA years and anything over 2 puts him in the Brassard/MZA situation where arbitration means a 1 year award, giving him maximum RFA leverage. So lock him up for 2 years at around $2.5M and then work on a long term deal when he's 25 and has shown continued growth. Had he gone the McDonagh route and had solid season after solid season, I might want a long term deal now, but he didn't.

This is a great point, actually, and one I didn't even realize. Exactly why a two-year deal is perfect.

Puck Head
07-21-2014, 11:45 AM
Very good news they are this close.
As mentioned before, even 2.8 would be fairly easy to choke down.

Slobberknocker
07-21-2014, 11:56 AM
the good news keeps rolling in.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
07-21-2014, 11:59 AM
I honestly figured from the start that Kreider would be getting more than his top asking price so this is great news. I can't imagine they don't work something out shortly.

momentum
07-21-2014, 01:13 PM
hope they can meet in the middle at around 2.5 per and it doesn't drag out and get ugly.

Phil in Absentia
07-21-2014, 01:23 PM
hope they can meet in the middle at around 2.5 per and it doesn't drag out and get ugly.

It can't drag out. He has an arbitration date set for July 23rd, so if they can't get a deal done before then, he'll go to his hearing and the arbitrator will award him either a one or two-year deal out of the hearing to which the Rangers cannot walk away from, as teams can't walk away from awards of less than $3.9M under the new CBA.

AmericanJesus
07-21-2014, 01:47 PM
It can't drag out. He has an arbitration date set for July 23rd, so if they can't get a deal done before then, he'll go to his hearing and the arbitrator will award him either a one or two-year deal out of the hearing to which the Rangers cannot walk away from, as teams can't walk away from awards of less than $3.9M under the new CBA.

The party being taken to arbitration (The Rangers) can decide whether they want a 1 or 2 year award. I believe it's been reported that they want a 2 year deal in arbitration.

Phil in Absentia
07-21-2014, 01:48 PM
The party being taken to arbitration (The Rangers) can decide whether they want a 1 or 2 year award. I believe it's been reported that they want a 2 year deal in arbitration.

Right. I'm just trying to illustrate that it can't be "dragged out". The award is presented, and it is unlikely to be for greater than $3.9M, so the Rangers won't be able to walk away from it.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
07-21-2014, 01:49 PM
The party being taken to arbitration (The Rangers) can decide whether they want a 1 or 2 year award. I believe it's been reported that they want a 2 year deal in arbitration.

If that's what happens, I'm completely fine with whatever number they give him, especially if it's in the range being reported now. They can give Kreider his 2.8, I could 100% live with that

AmericanJesus
07-21-2014, 01:53 PM
If that's what happens, I'm completely fine with whatever number they give him, especially if it's in the range being reported now. They can give Kreider his 2.8, I could 100% live with that

Well, it can get tricky with Kreider at $2.8M. Assume Brassard and MZA together are going to eat up $9M or so, that doesn't leave a heck of a lot of room to re-sign Moore and have 2 spares.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
07-21-2014, 02:02 PM
Yeah I would hope to get as low of a number as possible, but in the scope of it all, Kreider at 2.8 is a good price anyway

Have they reported what type of number Zuc and Brass are looking at?

In terms of spares, I'm assuming guys like Chris Borque and Matt Hunwick will have every chance to be 13th forward and 7th defenseman. They're at 600k each according to cap geek so that should be fine.

edit:
Hunwick or Kostka can battle with any prospect looking to make the jump for the and/or 7 spot

jjweimar
07-21-2014, 02:09 PM
Yeah but if you pay Brassard and Zucc a combined 9 mil and Kreider 2.8, Moore would have to be let go basically, I would assume he is looking for 2.0 even with Hunwick, Kostka, Mueller as two of the three spares, it still really is tight getting under the cap and I don't think it fits

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
07-21-2014, 02:12 PM
well we will see how the Brass and Zuc contracts go, but I think it's realistic to think we can get them for less than 9 combined, especially considering Zuc's willingness to take a lesser contract to stay here and help the team.

Phil in Absentia
07-21-2014, 04:19 PM
:tweet: @NYP_Brooksie: Re Kreider arb for Weds: NYR in at $2.05M AAV (1.9, 2.2) for 2 yrs, Kreider in at $2.8 per. Figure settlement or award at $2.2-2.5M AAV.

--

The salary structure is also telling on the NYR offer with a $2.2M salary in year two. Would keep his QO low.

Pete
07-21-2014, 04:22 PM
I had a funny feeling he'd get more, gotta admit I'm pretty happy to be wrong here.

Puck Head
07-21-2014, 04:45 PM
Kredier asking for 2.8, is a decent sign he hasn't confused himself with Cam Neely yet.
He essentially believes he is worth 2.3-2.6 IMO
That bodes well for the future.

Phil in Absentia
07-21-2014, 04:48 PM
Yup. And the Rangers bridging him with a second contract is key for the organization as well. Few players deserve to skip that second deal, and those who do (Staal, McDonagh, Lundqvist) all showed exceptional growth and consistency year-to-year which made not giving them a bridge smarter than were they to. If ever you wanted to see the potential damage of bridging players who don't need it, see Subban, P.K.. Could have had him at 5x5. Now you're getting him at 8x8. Because you were stupid.

RangersFan
07-21-2014, 04:54 PM
Yup. And the Rangers bridging him with a second contract is key for the organization as well. Few players deserve to skip that second deal, and those who do (Staal, McDonagh, Lundqvist) all showed exceptional growth and consistency year-to-year which made not giving them a bridge smarter than were they to. If ever you wanted to see the potential damage of bridging players who don't need it, see Subban, P.K.. Could have had him at 5x5. Now you're getting him at 8x8. Because you were stupid.
Good point. I also think Edmonton kind of messed up with their guys too by giving them long term deals before they can prove themselves.

fletch
07-21-2014, 05:15 PM
This seems like a workable situation, which should get solved amicably. Just the normal posturing of asking more than you're going to get, the boss offering less than you should get, and negotiations meeting somewhere in the middle.

Faiz
07-21-2014, 05:19 PM
Glad to see Kreider knows how this works and puts up a fair offer so both sides can work with it and are happy. I really wouldn't mind giving $2.8mil, heck, I'd even argue that he deserves it.
Just sucks that we have these cap issues that make us want to pay less for players.

Respecttheblue
07-21-2014, 09:07 PM
Is sign him at $2.8 for 4 years.

Yup, me too but could we get that long of a term? — I'm estimating his trajectory is up: especially in the salary dept.

Slobberknocker
07-22-2014, 08:24 AM
awesome thread guys. good points by all. This deal however it works is really good for him and the organization. Fair both ways considering what goes on in today's day and age.

AmericanJesus
07-22-2014, 10:05 AM
Ut oh, Brooks hatred BOILING UP....

http://nypost.com/2014/07/21/kreider-blueshirts-not-far-apart-could-avoid-arbitration-hearing/


He has recorded 11 goals and 22 points in 41 career playoffs matches.
Kreider and LA’s Drew Doughty are the only players age 24 or younger to record at least that many goals and points in the playoffs over the last three years.

Stepan had 10 goals and 29 points at 24 over the last three playoff years. Ok, so he had 10 goals, not 11, but that's so misleading that I have to wonder how many other players are very close to that range that it's not really just Kreider and Doughty.

So I take look at comparables for playoff production over the last 3 post seasons and find:

Hagelin at 25 who put up 10g, 21p.

If you go to 25, Kane blows that number up.

Slava Voynov, 24, had 9g and 25p

Then there are the guys who've only played in the last 2 post seasons, but have numbers right near Brooks' threshold:

Toffoli, 22, had 9g, 20p

Brandon Saad, 21, had 7 goals and 23p.

Andrew Shaw, at 23 had 7g, 17p

Torey Krug, at 23, 6g, 16p.

So rather than going the sensational route (ONLY KRIEDER AND TOP DEFENDER DOUGHTY!!!!!), go the honest route instead and say that Kreider is among a handful of young players who've put up around 20 points the past few post seasons. Not as sexy, but way more accurate.

CreaseCrusader91
07-22-2014, 10:18 AM
Ut oh, Brooks hatred BOILING UP....

http://nypost.com/2014/07/21/kreider-blueshirts-not-far-apart-could-avoid-arbitration-hearing/



Stepan had 10 goals and 29 points at 24 over the last three playoff years. Ok, so he had 10 goals, not 11, but that's so misleading that I have to wonder how many other players are very close to that range that it's not really just Kreider and Doughty.

So I take look at comparables for playoff production over the last 3 post seasons and find:

Hagelin at 25 who put up 10g, 21p.

If you go to 25, Kane blows that number up.

Slava Voynov, 24, had 9g and 25p

Then there are the guys who've only played in the last 2 post seasons, but have numbers right near Brooks' threshold:

Toffoli, 22, had 9g, 20p

Brandon Saad, 21, had 7 goals and 23p.

Andrew Shaw, at 23 had 7g, 17p

Torey Krug, at 23, 6g, 16p.

So rather than going the sensational route (ONLY KRIEDER AND TOP DEFENDER DOUGHTY!!!!!), go the honest route instead and say that Kreider is among a handful of young players who've put up around 20 points the past few post seasons. Not as sexy, but way more accurate.

I'd be interested to see the games played and P/GP. It may or may not add context to his point. Just curious and can't look it up right now at work.

AmericanJesus
07-22-2014, 10:48 AM
I'd be interested to see the games played and P/GP. It may or may not add context to his point. Just curious and can't look it up right now at work.

Well, if he was looking at points per game for say someone who's played at least 40 games, maybe, but there's a huge difference between:

Doughty played 64 playoff games over the last 3 years and had 11g, 28a, 39p (.61 PPG)
Kreider played 41 playoff games over the last 3 years and had 11g, 11a, 22p (.54 PPG)

Doughty had a higher pace, did it over 1/3 more games and is a defenseman who averaged 29:00/game this past post season. Kreider averaged under 17:00/game. Brooks used Doughty for name recognition and shock value.

Saad is much more comparable. 44 playoff games, 7g, 16a, 23p (.52 PPG) and plays the same position as Kreider and averaged 17:30/game last post season.
Shaw is close as well. 38gp, 7g, 10a, 17p (.45 PPG) and plays center and averaged 17:00/game last post season.

Plus, Brooks is a fucking an asshole hack. So there's that.

CreaseCrusader91
07-22-2014, 10:50 AM
Thanks for the information, and the extra word in the last sentence threw me for a loop. Lol.

Pete
07-22-2014, 10:54 AM
Well, if he was looking at points per game for say someone who's played at least 40 games, maybe, but there's a huge difference between:

Doughty played 64 playoff games over the last 3 years and had 11g, 28a, 39p (.61 PPG)
Kreider played 41 playoff games over the last 3 years and had 11g, 11a, 22p (.54 PPG)

Doughty had a higher pace, did it over 1/3 more games and is a defenseman who averaged 29:00/game this past post season. Kreider averaged under 17:00/game. Brooks used Doughty for name recognition and shock value.

Saad is much more comparable. 44 playoff games, 7g, 16a, 23p (.52 PPG) and plays the same position as Kreider and averaged 17:30/game last post season.
Shaw is close as well. 38gp, 7g, 10a, 17p (.45 PPG) and plays center and averaged 17:00/game last post season.

Plus, Brooks is a fucking an asshole hack. So there's that.

Dave, you're not allowed to insult forum users.

AmericanJesus
07-22-2014, 10:58 AM
Dave, you're not allowed to insult forum users.

Ah shit, you're right. Once he replies, I'll apologize.

Shane Falco
07-22-2014, 11:04 AM
Dave, you're not allowed to insult forum users.

:lol:


Ah shit, you're right. Once he replies, I'll apologize.

Apologize for speaking the truth? Nonsense

Phil in Absentia
07-22-2014, 03:34 PM
:tweet: @NYP_Brooksie: No agreement in sight, Kreider and #NYR appear headed to arbitration hearing in Toronto tomorrow morning.

--

Welp.