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CreaseCrusader91
07-05-2014, 12:17 PM
:tweet: @NYP_Brooksie: Brassard, Zuccarello, Kreider have filed for salary arbitration though all will continue to negotiate for long term deals. #NYR

DiJock94
07-05-2014, 12:52 PM
Fuckin a

Lt. Dan
07-05-2014, 12:59 PM
And here I thought the Rangers had avoided that. Interested to see the numbers.

Puck Head
07-05-2014, 01:10 PM
Arbitration leads to one year deals correct?
We simply can't allow Zucc and Brassard get to that point.

CreaseCrusader91
07-05-2014, 01:40 PM
Arbitration leads to one year deals correct?
We simply can't allow Zucc and Brassard get to that point.

One or two.

RangersFan
07-05-2014, 01:54 PM
Horrible. Doesnt get more fucked up then this

Drew a Penalty
07-05-2014, 01:57 PM
Horrible. Doesnt get more fucked up then this

Um, how is this fucked up? They can all sign before arbitration. Arbitration also doesn't always work in the player's favor. I fail to see how it can't get more fucked up than this.

RangersFan
07-05-2014, 02:12 PM
Um, how is this fucked up? They can all sign before arbitration. Arbitration also doesn't always work in the player's favor. I fail to see how it can't get more fucked up than this.

Because if Zuccarello and Brassard get 1 year deals, the same thing can happen next summer and they may cost more, thats how its fucked up.

josh
07-05-2014, 02:15 PM
We'd be better off at salary arbitration. Besides, they rarely get to that point.

rvbcaboose
07-05-2014, 02:22 PM
I feel like filing for SA is pretty standard these days, I'm not worried yet.

Puck Head
07-05-2014, 02:33 PM
Because if Zuccarello and Brassard get 1 year deals, the same thing can happen next summer and they may cost more, thats how its fucked up.

Next summer they would both be UFA's.

fletch
07-05-2014, 02:42 PM
Rangers would prefer multi-year deals while they have the leverage of RFA status... Rangers lose the leverage if/when a player becomes UFA.

Good chance that this gets done before arbitration, but smart for the players to file.

Phil in Absentia
07-05-2014, 02:46 PM
This is a good thing, folks. Having filed for arbitration, they are now exempt from offer sheets. This is a form of asset protection where the Rangers can now negotiate exclusively with their RFA property without fear of an offer sheet being signed.

RangersFan
07-05-2014, 02:49 PM
Next summer they would both be UFA's.


Exactly...

Drew a Penalty
07-05-2014, 02:54 PM
Because if Zuccarello and Brassard get 1 year deals, the same thing can happen next summer and they may cost more, thats how its fucked up.

That can happen without arbitration. The Rangers can negotiate prior to that. Zuccarello said he wants length therefore arbitration means little to him. I'd imagine Brassard would feel the same. As Phil said, this is more of asset security than anything. Generally Rangers don't hit arbitration. I'm not worried.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Phil in Absentia
07-05-2014, 02:56 PM
I don't anticipate any issues here -- the dates will likely be set for late July or August, so they'll have plenty of time to negotiate long-term deals out before then.

ThirtyONE
07-05-2014, 03:05 PM
Nothing wrong with this. Essentially guarantees they're our property and it give both sides all summer to negotiate.

Phil in Absentia
07-05-2014, 03:11 PM
Not "all summer" -- that all depends on when their arbitration hearings are scheduled for, which could be as early as late July. It gives them, in my estimation, anywhere between a three and six-week window to get long term deals signed.

NYR2711
07-05-2014, 04:34 PM
I have no problem with this, it will mean we won't have to overspend on our RFA's.

Gorilla Salad
07-05-2014, 05:22 PM
This is a good thing, folks. Having filed for arbitration, they are now exempt from offer sheets. This is a form of asset protection where the Rangers can now negotiate exclusively with their RFA property without fear of an offer sheet being signed.

This is the important part. It's what I personally was most worried about with these 3. Some knucklehead coming in with a huge amount of available dollars per player to fill their roster and blowing everyone away with a ridiculous offer. (Ottawa-$16MM, Islanders-$14MM, Buffalo-$8MM, Colorado-$10MM. Montreal-$7MM)

Phil in Absentia
07-05-2014, 05:34 PM
I have no problem with this, it will mean we won't have to overspend on our RFA's.

Not necessarily. With Zuccarello and Brassard, anything beyond a one-year deal is the club purchasing UFA years from each player, so they'll have to pay them accordingly.

Each, on a one-year deal that takes them directly to UFA next summer... I'm guessing around $3.5M to $4M each. Long-term for both where UFA years are purchased? Probably closer to $4M on Zuccarello and $5M on Brassard.

Puck Head
07-05-2014, 06:07 PM
Not necessarily. With Zuccarello and Brassard, anything beyond a one-year deal is the club purchasing UFA years from each player, so they'll have to pay them accordingly.

Each, on a one-year deal that takes them directly to UFA next summer... I'm guessing around $3.5M to $4M each. Long-term for both where UFA years are purchased? Probably closer to $4M on Zuccarello and $5M on Brassard.

Kind of the exact numbers I've been thinking.
3.9 to 4.4 for Zucc
4.7-5.4 for Brassard.

Phil in Absentia
07-05-2014, 07:05 PM
Kind of the exact numbers I've been thinking.
3.9 to 4.4 for Zucc
4.7-5.4 for Brassard.

Yeah, I'm thinking based on years, the numbers would fluctuate.

So if we're talking Brassard, for example, it's something like this:

1 year — $4M
2 years — $4.25M
3 years — $4.75M
4 years — $5M
5 plus — $5.5M

And that grows exponentially.

Zuccarello would be similar, though his total ceiling is lower based on less proven NHL production. I'd say he maxes out per year around $4.5M once you've gotten to three or four years in length.

So yeah, basically exactly your figures.

Respecttheblue
07-05-2014, 08:46 PM
This is a good thing, folks. Having filed for arbitration, they are now exempt from offer sheets. This is a form of asset protection where the Rangers can now negotiate exclusively with their RFA property without fear of an offer sheet being signed.

Right, and there's a fair to middling chance we get deals done — isn't that part of why Antwan Stralmoan, Burnt Poulet and BriBrows were allowed to walk without big offers?

Captain Clutch
07-05-2014, 09:16 PM
Typical, just a safety net. Not really news, i expect this from most RFA's at this point.

AmericanJesus
07-05-2014, 11:25 PM
I would have been ridiculously happy if Buffalo or Calgary made a huge offer for Brassard that resulted in multiple likely lottery picks coming our way. I would have driven him to either location.

Don't remember the last arbitration eligible RFA the Rangers had that didn't file for arbitration.

rmc51
07-06-2014, 07:28 AM
Kind of the exact numbers I've been thinking.
3.9 to 4.4 for Zucc
4.7-5.4 for Brassard.

I have a tough time giving that much to Brassard. In actuality, the extra money should go to Zuccs not Brassard.

Phil in Absentia
07-06-2014, 09:52 AM
I would have been ridiculously happy if Buffalo or Calgary made a huge offer for Brassard that resulted in multiple likely lottery picks coming our way. I would have driven him to either location.

Don't remember the last arbitration eligible RFA the Rangers had that didn't file for arbitration.

I wouldn't have called it "ridiculously happy", but if one of those clubs did go all in, I'd at least see a silver lining. I think the issue would have been that a sort of mid-range club (like the Isles) who are sorta on the cusp of being a playoff club would have done so.

AmericanJesus
07-06-2014, 09:57 AM
I wouldn't have called it "ridiculously happy", but if one of those clubs did go all in, I'd at least see a silver lining. I think the issue would have been that a sort of mid-range club (like the Isles) who are sorta on the cusp of being a playoff club would have done so.

Yeah that would have been a different story. I like Brassard as a player, but I don't love him.

Phil in Absentia
07-06-2014, 10:03 AM
Same. Not that I'd think the Isles would be the team to poach him (as opposed to Kreider), but just a team like that. It turns those compensatory picks from "well, at least we get top-10 picks!" into "so what, we're getting something in the twenties range?"

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 12:39 PM
Same. Not that I'd think the Isles would be the team to poach him (as opposed to Kreider), but just a team like that. It turns those compensatory picks from "well, at least we get top-10 picks!" into "so what, we're getting something in the twenties range?"

If I read right, Kreider wasn't even offer sheet eligible based on GP.

josh
07-06-2014, 12:42 PM
Anyone hav a list of past arbitration awards?

Phil in Absentia
07-06-2014, 12:59 PM
If I read right, Kreider wasn't even offer sheet eligible based on GP.

If he was arbitration eligible, how is he not offer sheet eligible? Did that change under this CBA?

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 03:03 PM
If he was arbitration eligible, how is he not offer sheet eligible? Did that change under this CBA?

He doesn't have three years of pro experience. Same reason why Krug and Reilly from Bruins couldn't be offer sheeted. He's eligible for arbitration because of his contract amount. The two are not tied together based on my reading of section 10 of the CBA.

EDIT: Dave can take a look at the CBA and offer his thoughts as well. My interpretation may be off.

Phil in Absentia
07-06-2014, 03:04 PM
Ya learn something new every day.

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 04:29 PM
I think it will take $12.34M to resign the remaining RFAs.


CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
Roster
FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.250m)
Chris Kreider ($2.330m) / Derick Brassard ($4.660m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Carl Hagelin ($2.250m)
Tanner Glass ($1.450m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)

DEFENSEMEN

Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Dan Boyle ($4.500m) / Marc Staal ($3.975m)
Kevin Klein ($2.900m) / John Moore ($1.100m)
Matt Hunwick ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,976,667; BONUSES: $445,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $2,023,333

Here's a snippet of one of my justifications.


Derick Brassard

Last Contract: Four years, $12.8 million, $3.2 million cap hit

Career Stats: 403 Games Played, 81 Goals | 144 Assists | 225 Points

2013-14 Season: 81 Games Played, 18 Goals | 27 Assists | 45 Points

Derick Brassard is coming off a four-year deal signed when he was a member of the Columbus Blue Jackets, and he's due for a raise when you consider last year was the second-best season of his career.

Brassard finished with a career-high in goals scored (18), a tie for his second-most assists recorded in a single season (27) and he finished with his second-highest points total (45) in the regular season.

He is slated to be a second-line center this season, and he's clearly due for a raise from his current salary of $3.2 million.

Brassard will turn 27 this September, and any long-term deal would involve the buying of UFA years. Most players don't have a renaissance in the later stages of their career, but Brassard's growth under Vigneault at the very least is encouraging.

For the full scheme, you can check this out. (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2120803-how-much-will-it-cost-new-york-rangers-to-re-sign-remaining-free-agents)

AmericanJesus
07-06-2014, 05:44 PM
He doesn't have three years of pro experience. Same reason why Krug and Reilly from Bruins couldn't be offer sheeted. He's eligible for arbitration because of his contract amount. The two are not tied together based on my reading of section 10 of the CBA.

EDIT: Dave can take a look at the CBA and offer his thoughts as well. My interpretation may be off.

I assume you're looking at the part that states that since he signed his first contract at 21 years of age (by September of the year he signed, meaning 2012, which he was since his birthday was in April) then in order to be Group 2 he would need at least 3 years of professional experience, deemed as at least 10 "Professional Games" in a given League Year. So now we have to look at two things:

1. How are Professional Games defined. So we look to the glossary and find that:


"Professional Games" includes the following: any NHL Games played, all minor
league regular season and playoff games and any other professional games played, including but
not limited to, games played in any European league or any other league outside North America,
by a Player pursuant to his SPC.

And then to the definition of NHL Games:


"NHL Games" means Regular Season Games and Playoff Games.

2. How many games did he play each year:

2011-2012: 0 regular season, 18 post season - Counts as a first year of professional experience.
2012-2013: 23 regular season games, 48 AHL regular season games, 8 playoff games - Counts as a second year of professional experience.
2013-2014: 66 regular season games, 15 playoff games - Counts as a third year of professional experience.

So he's offer sheet eligible with three years of professional service.

rmc51
07-06-2014, 05:54 PM
Brassard is not worth more than 4 mill per year. Hes a 40 point player. Let him go to arbitration. Sign Zuccs and Kreider longer term if you can.

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 05:59 PM
I assume you're looking at the part that states that since he signed his first contract at 21 years of age (by September of the year he signed, meaning 2012, which he was since his birthday was in April) then in order to be Group 2 he would need at least 3 years of professional experience, deemed as at least 10 "Professional Games" in a given League Year. So now we have to look at two things:

1. How are Professional Games defined. So we look to the glossary and find that:



And then to the definition of NHL Games:



2. How many games did he play each year:

2011-2012: 0 regular season, 18 post season - Counts as a first year of professional experience.
2012-2013: 23 regular season games, 48 AHL regular season games, 8 playoff games - Counts as a second year of professional experience.
2013-2014: 66 regular season games, 15 playoff games - Counts as a third year of professional experience.

So he's offer sheet eligible with three years of professional service.

Thanks for the clarification.

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 05:59 PM
Brassard is not worth more than 4 mill per year. Hes a 40 point player. Let him go to arbitration. Sign Zuccs and Kreider longer term if you can.

He had his 2nd best season last year under Vigneault. He has leverage because who legitimately replaces him? Career high in goals, 2nd most assist total and 2nd for points. He's a guy who could be a 55 point center. For just under $5M that is fine in a world where the cap is increasing.

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 06:06 PM
He had his 2nd best season last year under Vigneault. He has leverage because who legitimately replaces him? Career high in goals, 2nd most assist total and 2nd for points. He's a guy who could be a 55 point center. For just under $5M that is fine in a world where the cap is increasing.


Brassard isnt worth 5 mil. We cant pay a guy for what he could be.

josh
07-06-2014, 06:06 PM
He had his 2nd best season last year under Vigneault. He has leverage because who legitimately replaces him? Career high in goals, 2nd most assist total and 2nd for points. He's a guy who could be a 55 point center. For just under $5M that is fine in a world where the cap is increasing.

Brassard will get 1yr x 3.8 at arbitration. He'll go UFA earlier, but next seasons cap will be low.

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 06:08 PM
Brassard will get 1yr x 3.8 at arbitration. He'll go UFA earlier, but next seasons cap will be low.

2015-16? It is increasing because it is first year in which Rogers deal will take effect in HRR equation. I don't think it gets to arbitration. He's coming off a good year and a 600k raise won't do it IMO. He's youngish and talented and has proven history with Zucc. Don't think they want to jeopardize that. I have him at 4.66 with UFA years purchased.

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 06:10 PM
2015-16? It is increasing because it is first year in which Rogers deal will take effect in HRR equation. I don't think it gets to arbitration. He's coming off a good year and a 600k raise won't do it IMO. He's youngish and talented and has proven history with Zucc. Don't think they want to jeopardize that.


So how much do we give him? 5 mil? lol thats crazy. And Zucc and Brassard may not play on the same line next season

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 06:11 PM
So how much do we give him? 5 mil? lol thats crazy. And Zucc and Brassard may not play on the same line next season

I said 4.66. More than fair for a second line center that has some UFA years bought out.

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 06:13 PM
I said 4.66. More than fair for a second line center that has some UFA years bought out.


But he played on the 3rd line last year.

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 06:23 PM
But he played on the 3rd line last year.

What line is he going to play on this year?

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 06:24 PM
What line is he going to play on this year?


Most likely the 2nd line but who cares? He wasnt our 2nd line center last year was he?

Phil in Absentia
07-06-2014, 06:25 PM
But he played on the 3rd line last year.

Doesn't matter. His trio with Zucc and Pouliot was the Rangers best and most consistent offensive line last season and with Richards now bought out and with the Hawks, Brassard moves up by default, which means he's a second-line center regardless.

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 06:27 PM
Doesn't matter. His trio with Zucc and Pouliot was the Rangers best and most consistent offensive line last season and with Richards now bought out and with the Hawks, Brassard moves up by default, which means he's a second-line center regardless.


It does matter, he will move up to the 2nd line making the competition harder than it was last year. If Brassard is the 2nd line center and he gets 50 points or more, i'll be very surprised

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 06:28 PM
Doesn't matter. His trio with Zucc and Pouliot was the Rangers best and most consistent offensive line last season and with Richards now bought out and with the Hawks, Brassard moves up by default, which means he's a second-line center regardless.

Am I too high with a $4.66 estimation? He's got a good case to make and is stepping up in the lineup. I doubt they want a one year deal so they would be buying out UFA years. He had great success with Zuke and as I said had career or second best marks across the board.

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 06:30 PM
It does matter, he will move up to the 2nd line making the competition harder than it was last year. If Brassard is the 2nd line center and he gets 50 points or more, i'll be very surprised

Not really. He wasn't matching up with third pairing defenders. He was getting OZ starts and facing quality competition. He didn't feast on pylon defenders.

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 06:31 PM
Not really. He wasn't matching up with third pairing defenders. He was getting OZ starts and facing quality competition. He didn't feast on pylon defenders.


Ok. I guess we will see what happens

Phil in Absentia
07-06-2014, 06:32 PM
It does matter, he will move up to the 2nd line making the competition harder than it was last year. If Brassard is the 2nd line center and he gets 50 points or more, i'll be very surprised

What do you mean "making the competition harder than it was last year"? What competition — the one faced in opposing teams, or are you talking about internal battles for spots?

50 points for a second-line center is great production, mind you. Most teams in the league would kill for that kind of steady presence out of their second line.


Am I too high with a $4.66 estimation? He's got a good case to make and is stepping up in the lineup. I doubt they want a one year deal so they would be buying out UFA years. He had great success with Zuke and as I said had career or second best marks across the board.

I don't think so, no. I have him closer to $5M, honestly — thinking he bases any long-term deal on the contracts signed by Weiss ($4.9M) and Gagner ($4.8M).

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 06:33 PM
What do you mean "making the competition harder than it was last year"? What competition — the one faced in opposing teams, or are you talking about internal battles for spots?

50 points for a second-line center is great production, mind you. Most teams in the league would kill for that kind of steady presence out of their second line.



I don't think so, no. I have him closer to $5M, honestly — thinking he bases any long-term deal on the contracts signed by Weiss ($4.9M) and Gagner ($4.8M).



When did Brassard hit 50 points as a 2nd like center? I meant going up opposing lines

Pete
07-06-2014, 06:33 PM
It does matter, he will move up to the 2nd line making the competition harder than it was last year. If Brassard is the 2nd line center and he gets 50 points or more, i'll be very surprised

If you're the opposing defense, you're more worried about Nash and MSL than Brassard. He'll get good match ups because AV does a good job of that.

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 06:34 PM
If you're the opposing defense, you're more worried about Nash and MSL than Brassard. He'll get good match ups because AV does a good job of that.


I hope so because thats what is worrying me about Brass on the 2nd line

Phil in Absentia
07-06-2014, 06:39 PM
When did Brassard hit 50 points as a 2nd like center? I meant going up opposing lines

I don't understand where you are going here, at all.

Who said he's scored 50 points before? His highest production total in his career to date is 47 points with Columbus in 2010-11. He did that in 74 games, however, which is a 0.64 P/G pace. Over 82 games, that's 52-point pace.

Last season for the Rangers, his P/G was 0.56 over 81 games. Good for 46 points. Still within range of what most second-line centers in this league will give you.

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 06:43 PM
[QUOTE=Rome 2.0;687817]I don't understand where you are going here, at all.

Who said he's scored 50 points before? His highest production total in his career to date is 47 points with Columbus in 2010-11. He did that in 74 games, however, which is a 0.64 P/G pace. Over 82 games, that's 52-point pace.

Last season for the Rangers, his P/G was 0.56 over 81 games. Good for 46 points. Still within range of what most second-line centers in this league will give you.[/QUOTE


Lets hope he can be a good 2nd line center. He is inconsistent but hopefully it improves if he is in the top 6

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 06:43 PM
I don't understand where you are going here, at all.

Who said he's scored 50 points before? His highest production total in his career to date is 47 points with Columbus in 2010-11. He did that in 74 games, however, which is a 0.64 P/G pace. Over 82 games, that's 52-point pace.

Last season for the Rangers, his P/G was 0.56 over 81 games. Good for 46 points. Still within range of what most second-line centers in this league will give you.

And last year in a system he was comfortable with familiar line mates he set a career high in goals, tie for 2nd best in assists and 2nd best points.

He's not going to become an elite center but 50-55 is doable if Zuccarello replicates his success and they find a nice player to compliment the loss of Pouliot.

Cash or Czech?
07-06-2014, 08:15 PM
But he played on the 3rd line last year.

He didn't play 3rd line. He played as much as the Richards line and got powerplay time. We essentially had 2a and 2b but he was essentially in the role of an offensively creative 2nd line center.

rmc51
07-06-2014, 10:34 PM
I keep seeing people mention how Brassard had a career high in goals last season as a positive for him. Sorry, but if 18 goals is a guy's career high and he has been in the league 7 years then that makes the Rangers' case stronger in arbitration. Thats not going to do Brassard any favors. I would think an arbitrator is going to look at numbers on paper, not what "could" happen. But I dont know, im not an arbitrator. I think the Rangers will have him go to arbitration amd he will be awarded less than 4 mill.

RangersFan
07-06-2014, 10:44 PM
I keep seeing people mention how Brassard had a career high in goals last season as a positive for him. Sorry, but if 18 goals is a guy's career high and he has been in the league 7 years then that makes the Rangers' case stronger in arbitration. Thats not going to do Brassard any favors. I would think an arbitrator is going to look at numbers on paper, not what "could" happen. But I dont know, im not an arbitrator. I think the Rangers will have him go to arbitration amd he will be awarded less than 4 mill.



Good post. Paying him because he "could" put up 55 points isnt a good idea

CreaseCrusader91
07-06-2014, 10:58 PM
I keep seeing people mention how Brassard had a career high in goals last season as a positive for him. Sorry, but if 18 goals is a guy's career high and he has been in the league 7 years then that makes the Rangers' case stronger in arbitration. Thats not going to do Brassard any favors. I would think an arbitrator is going to look at numbers on paper, not what "could" happen. But I dont know, im not an arbitrator. I think the Rangers will have him go to arbitration amd he will be awarded less than 4 mill.

This is irrelevant. Setting a career high in Year X doesn't make or break. If we want to be technical it is really only his fifth year, with one of those years being a 48 game season, since his first year was 17 games, and his second was 31 games. Growth is never a bad thing. Brassard has been known for his playmaking, so increasing his goal scoring is only a positive. In addition, who centers second line in place of Brassard? Another point in his favor.

An arbiter is going to see what he did this past year, what his salary was, and comparable salaries based on production.

Sam Gagner is a direct comparable. He has played in 481 games and has 295 points and that equates to 0.61 points per game. In 403 games, Brassard had 225 points, and a 0.56 points per game average, but with NY he has averaged 0.60 points per game, or 49.2 points a season. That is close enough to 50 points for me. The last two years will matter more to an arbiter, and he would get a comparable deal to Gagner's $4.8. I projected $4.66, a little less because of the difference.

AmericanJesus
07-07-2014, 06:47 AM
Good post. Paying him because he "could" put up 55 points isnt a good idea

No one will pay him for what he could be. They will pay him for what he is at or near market value for similar type players. If he does hit arbitration I think the Rangers opt for two years and he gets $4.2m a year. I suspect they reach a three year $4.5m deal before then.

AmericanJesus
07-07-2014, 06:55 AM
Sam Gagner put up 38 in 48 in his contract year and when he followed it up with a 37 in 67 point year which is similar to Brassard's average he was traded. He was paid $4.8m because Edmonton thought he had finally broken out.

McDougalfaschnitzer
07-07-2014, 10:53 AM
I hope the arbitration process doesn't sour any of the players.

Phil in Absentia
07-07-2014, 10:57 AM
That doesn't happen unless you actually get to the arbitration hearing. At that point it's usually only a matter of time before that player leaves the organization. I can't think of any players who've made it to an arbitration hearing who didn't end up leaving that team within a year or two.

CreaseCrusader91
07-07-2014, 11:14 AM
That doesn't happen unless you actually get to the arbitration hearing. At that point it's usually only a matter of time before that player leaves the organization. I can't think of any players who've made it to an arbitration hearing who didn't end up leaving that team within a year or two.

Which hasn't happened in a while for us. Zherdev was last one to go through arbitration in 2009.

Phil in Absentia
07-09-2014, 03:22 PM
:tweet: @RothmanHockey: Per @NHLPA, dates set for NYR salary arbitration hearings: Chris Kreider - July 23 // Mats Zuccarello - July 25 // Derick Brassard - July 28

--

There you go. All end-of-July dates.

RangersFan
07-09-2014, 03:23 PM
:tweet: @RothmanHockey: Per @NHLPA, dates set for NYR salary arbitration hearings: Chris Kreider - July 23 // Mats Zuccarello - July 25 // Derick Brassard - July 28

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There you go. All end-of-July dates.

I go back to work on the 23rd, guess i'll have to wait till i get home to see Kreiders contract, ugh

AmericanJesus
07-09-2014, 03:26 PM
That doesn't happen unless you actually get to the arbitration hearing. At that point it's usually only a matter of time before that player leaves the organization. I can't think of any players who've made it to an arbitration hearing who didn't end up leaving that team within a year or two.

Notable exception would sort of be Shea Weber. He got $7.5M in arbitration, then signed an offer sheet on his next deal that the Preds matched.

Phil in Absentia
07-09-2014, 03:28 PM
I go back to work on the 23rd, guess i'll have to wait till i get home to see Kreiders contract, ugh

That's the date set for his arbitration hearing, provided he gets to it. The Rangers/players opted for this likely as a means of protecting their assets from offer sheets, and to allow them ample time between now and the hearing dates to negotiate a long-term extension without having to allow arbitration to happen.

As to the date itself, I don't believe the contract is awarded day-of. It's just the day of the hearing itself. The award may come after. I'm not 100% on that, however.

Phil in Absentia
07-09-2014, 03:28 PM
Notable exception would sort of be Shea Weber. He got $7.5M in arbitration, then signed an offer sheet on his next deal that the Preds matched.

Right, which is a bit of an extenuating circumstance. He clearly wanted out, and most folks in the hockey world were helping him pack his bags before Poile bit on matching.

RangersFan
07-09-2014, 03:28 PM
That's the date set for his arbitration hearing, provided he gets to it. The Rangers/players opted for this likely as a means of protecting their assets from offer sheets, and to allow them ample time between now and the hearing dates to negotiate a long-term extension without having to allow arbitration to happen.

As to the date itself, I don't believe the contract is awarded day-of. It's just the day of the hearing itself. The award may come after. I'm not 100% on that, however.

Ah ok thanks, hopefully it all ends well

AmericanJesus
07-09-2014, 03:42 PM
That's the date set for his arbitration hearing, provided he gets to it. The Rangers/players opted for this likely as a means of protecting their assets from offer sheets, and to allow them ample time between now and the hearing dates to negotiate a long-term extension without having to allow arbitration to happen.

As to the date itself, I don't believe the contract is awarded day-of. It's just the day of the hearing itself. The award may come after. I'm not 100% on that, however.

These were all player elected arbitration. These weren't to protect against offer sheets. If the players wanted offer sheet opportunities, they would have not elected to file for arbitration. These are the garden variety put as much pressure on management as you can to get the deal you're looking for type arbitration filings. Basically, either give on some of the players' demands or opt for Brassard and/or MZA to be UFAs in two years, maximum. Kreider is just a situation where it could create heat, but the player would be around for a while still. He's not UFA eligible for 4 more years, I believe.

Pete
07-16-2014, 10:23 AM
Kreider - July 23
Zuccarello - July 25
Brassard - July 28
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http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/rangerrants/lombardi_signs_two-year_deal_to_return_to_nhl/

Phil in Absentia
07-16-2014, 10:26 AM
Yup, those dates were released earlier in the month.

http://www.blueshirtsbrotherhood.com/showthread.php?14192-Brassard-Kreider-and-Zuccarello-File-For-Salary-Arbitration&p=688845&viewfull=1#post688845

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So we're basically looking at around nine to twelve more days to negotiate deals with Zuccarello and Brassard. It's getting close.

Phil in Absentia
07-17-2014, 09:17 AM
Kreider, whose hearing is scheduled for July 23, will get a two-year award that likely will fall in the range of $2.1 million-$2.5 million per season, even as the parties attempt to avoid arbitration by nailing down a two-year contract prior to the hearing.

Zuccarello, whose hearing is scheduled for July 25, and Brassard, whose hearing is set for July 28, are both eligible to become unrestricted free agents next summer. Hence, they would receive one-year awards should they actually go to arbitration.

The Rangers are attempting to negotiate long-term contracts with both that would entail “buying out” years of unrestricted free agency and thus would increase their annual cap hits over what they would command in arbitration.

Zuccarello, who would likely be in the $3.7 million-$4 million arbitration range off his club-leading 59-point season (19-40), is believed seeking a multi-year deal for at least $4.5 million per. Brassard, who would likely be in the $4.5 million-$4.75 million arbitration range off his 45-point (17-28) year, is believed to be looking for a long-term deal worth approximately $5.5 million per.

The Rangers could allow them both to go to arbitration and then attempt to sign them to contract extensions after Jan. 1. That would save cap space for this season, but could prove risky business.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/17/boston-college-graduate-kevin-hayes-on-rangers-radar/

NYR2711
07-17-2014, 09:48 AM
There is no way I can see paying Brassard $5.5M a year. I think I would lose my mind if that happened. Zucc I am ok with giving $4.5, thats only $.5M more than what he is worth, but no way can I see Brassard being worth $5.5M a year right now.

Morphinity
07-17-2014, 09:56 AM
Yeah, Brassard at $5.5 is a joke.

Slobberknocker
07-17-2014, 10:02 AM
what are the chances that we sign kreider to a bridge deal. is he eligible?

jjweimar
07-17-2014, 10:11 AM
what are the chances that we sign kreider to a bridge deal. is he eligible?

What we would like to do is sign him to a 3-5 year deal buying some of his UFA years, but the problem is it will cost us

Pete
07-17-2014, 10:24 AM
What we would like to do is sign him to a 3-5 year deal buying some of his UFA years, but the problem is it will cost us

I don't know that I agree with that. He still has a lot to prove, he definitely gets a bridge deal.

Slobberknocker
07-17-2014, 10:31 AM
I don't know that I agree with that. He still has a lot to prove, he definitely gets a bridge deal.

pete,

it just seems like the norm to me that guy's like this get locked up a bit in their 20's. You would almost like to see him under a club friendly deal until he's pushing 30 and then let some one else sign him to the big bomber until he's 37.

Phil in Absentia
07-17-2014, 10:40 AM
Yeah, Brassard at $5.5 is a joke.

Eh, I don't think so. I mean, maybe you're not comfortable paying that, but that's what that player goes for on the open market. Filppula, Weiss, etc. already set that bar.

DiJock94
07-17-2014, 11:11 AM
Brassard is a 45 pt player. He doesn't PK or play physical. I think his qualifying offer is high.

Parsley
07-17-2014, 11:17 AM
5.5 for a Brass? :doh:

Phil in Absentia
07-17-2014, 11:21 AM
Brassard is a 45 pt player. He doesn't PK or play physical. I think his qualifying offer is high.

His qualifying offer is determined by a percentage of the salary he makes (actual salary, not AAV) in the final year of his is contract.

DiJock94
07-17-2014, 11:31 AM
I understand how qualifying offers work. Just means Columbus overpaid him on his last contract.

Pete
07-17-2014, 11:43 AM
pete,

it just seems like the norm to me that guy's like this get locked up a bit in their 20's. You would almost like to see him under a club friendly deal until he's pushing 30 and then let some one else sign him to the big bomber until he's 37.

What's "guys like this"? He has a ton to proove. We don't know what he is. He had 2/3 of a good season and 2/3 of a good playoff. He's almost definitely getting bridged.

Phil in Absentia
07-17-2014, 11:48 AM
what are the chances that we sign kreider to a bridge deal. is he eligible?

"Bridge deal" is just a new term to describe what was formerly known as "the second contract", which was just another way of explaining to fans that some players go from Entry-Level contracts (generally three years), to a "bridge", that takes them either to free agency, or just shy of it, where at that point teams will then pony up and pay them after either being convinced (or not) of the player they are.

Technically speaking, any player coming off an ELC is "eligible" for a bridge deal.

Slobberknocker
07-17-2014, 02:54 PM
What's "guys like this"? He has a ton to proove. We don't know what he is. He had 2/3 of a good season and 2/3 of a good playoff. He's almost definitely getting bridged.

guys that you think have an upside. he had 37 points last year in 68 some games and was damn near a ppg player in the playoffs. i would say his stock is still on the rise at his age. biggest thing for him this year is playing the right way and gaining consistency.

Pete
07-17-2014, 02:58 PM
guys that you think have an upside. he had 37 points last year in 68 some games and was damn near a ppg player in the playoffs. i would say his stock is still on the rise at his age. biggest thing for him this year is playing the right way and gaining consistency.

His playoff P/G is skewed my a 4 point game vs. Montreal. He was great vs. Pitt and MTL, and not so great vs. LA. That's what I mean about not knowing what he is.

It's not that I don't agree about him having upside, I just don't see why you'd sign him to an 8 year deal right now, or why he'd take one.

Thump23
07-17-2014, 03:03 PM
His playoff P/G is skewed my a 4 point game vs. Montreal. He was great vs. Pitt and MTL, and not so great vs. LA. That's what I mean about not knowing what he is.

It's not that I don't agree about him having upside, I just don't see why you'd sign him to an 8 year deal right now, or why he'd take one.

Barring injury, you could pretty much pencil him in for 25 goals next year, I don't know what that's worth, contract wise though, you guys are better at that stuff than I am.

josh
07-17-2014, 03:03 PM
what are the chances that we sign kreider to a bridge deal. is he eligible?

He will take a bridge deal.

He hasn't been consistent, or proven to be a $4m + player to command or deserve a long-term deal at that rate. Even if he signs a 5yr deal, its hard to justify him getting much more than 3m per. (And I think we'd all take 3m x5+y)

If anything, he might be pushing for a 1 year deal, in the 2.5-3 range, with hopes to up that number next off season. If he does improve, then we can look at a long-term deal worth more.

DiJock94
07-17-2014, 10:24 PM
Yeah, Brassard at $5.5 is a joke.

Bump for being absolutely accurate

ThirtyONE
07-18-2014, 05:14 PM
Yeah. Were kinda fucked on options so brassard has us over a barrel here. 5.5 would be a coup for his side. The dude just flat out isn't that good.

Morphinity
07-19-2014, 12:30 AM
If that's what we have to pay him, I'd just let him walk.

Pete
07-19-2014, 01:04 AM
If that's what we have to pay him, I'd just let him walk.

No way. Just take the one year. We can't replace him.

RangersFan
07-19-2014, 02:57 AM
If that's what we have to pay him, I'd just let him walk.

That wouldnt be a good idea imo. Better off signing him for a year

fletch
07-19-2014, 07:37 AM
Looking at our roster we're already slated to start a lot of young players. If you're thinking about letting Brassard walk (or get signed by someone else), look at the veteran free agent pool. I'm having a hard time finding a suitable replacement. No player is irreplaceable (see how Sather dealt with the Callahan situation) but unless Brassard's agent gets crazy with his demands I think we see Brassard in a Rangers' uniform next year.

Respecttheblue
07-19-2014, 11:02 AM
Looking at our roster we're already slated to start a lot of young players. If you're thinking about letting Brassard walk (or get signed by someone else), look at the veteran free agent pool. I'm having a hard time finding a suitable replacement. No player is irreplaceable (see how Sather dealt with the Callahan situation) but unless Brassard's agent gets crazy with his demands I think we see Brassard in a Rangers' uniform next year.

yes.

I think we need a chart like this for the Rangers .

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/622213/Points_v_salary.JPG


The whole FA / RFA things is all over the place, looking at the points per 60 minutes table (inneressin!)

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-points-per-60-min-leaders/2013/

the table is a mishmash of comparables and very uncompareables — he's right there with older established players such as Nash and LeCavalier, who are poor comparisons, and Kreider, Dubinsky and Parenteau, Toffoli, Ladd. Who may not be any better of a comparison. Is there a chart that show what centers are being paid by the production per 60 min?

anyway, with Brass, my sense is that he's been fairly steady, 41-47 pt player the last several seasons (ex-2013-13), what you see is what you get probably 14-20 goals, 27 assists, with the capacity to maybe surprise and take it up a notch, or maybe not. What is the going rate is for that kind of production from a center at his age. $5.5 surprises me. I'd have thought with a QO at $3.7 million we could talk a $4.8 million --- Tyler Ennis just signed for $4.6 mil with BUF, he's a 20 goal scorer, maybe fewer assists. I would not want to be going above $5 mil but I could be wrong.

NYR2711
07-19-2014, 12:03 PM
I honestly wouldn't give Brassard any more than a 1 year deal right now. He still has a lot to prove before he cashes in, and this season is gonna be a huge mark for him. His line from last year is done, and IMO he was a product of that line, so I am really curious as to what he is going to do points wise this up coming season with someone different and a different style his line will play.

fletch
07-19-2014, 05:47 PM
yes.

I think we need a chart like this for the Rangers .

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/622213/Points_v_salary.JPG


The whole FA / RFA things is all over the place, looking at the points per 60 minutes table (inneressin!)

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-points-per-60-min-leaders/2013/

the table is a mishmash of comparables and very uncompareables — he's right there with older established players such as Nash and LeCavalier, who are poor comparisons, and Kreider, Dubinsky and Parenteau, Toffoli, Ladd. Who may not be any better of a comparison. Is there a chart that show what centers are being paid by the production per 60 min?

anyway, with Brass, my sense is that he's been fairly steady, 41-47 pt player the last several seasons (ex-2013-13), what you see is what you get probably 14-20 goals, 27 assists, with the capacity to maybe surprise and take it up a notch, or maybe not. What is the going rate is for that kind of production from a center at his age. $5.5 surprises me. I'd have thought with a QO at $3.7 million we could talk a $4.8 million --- Tyler Ennis just signed for $4.6 mil with BUF, he's a 20 goal scorer, maybe fewer assists. I would not want to be going above $5 mil but I could be wrong.

You can sort the sportschart link by the various columns by clicking on the column head - I sorted by team to group all the Rangers together. Numbers are points per 60 minutes.

Zuccarello 2.68
MSL 2.44
Stepan 2.31
Kreider 2.14
Nash 2.12
Brassard 2.11
Pouillot 2.01
Hagelin 1.77

Take home messages for me:
Zuccarello and Stepan are more productive than I thought.
Kreider and Nash are the closest comparables to Brassard (in terms of production). Brassard is not a player to be discarded lightly.

cousin
07-23-2014, 10:02 PM
Brssard better not test Sather. he'll say adios and look around if he hasn't been looking at a backup plan already.