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Phil in Absentia
06-30-2014, 03:49 PM
:tweet: @TSNBobMcKenzie: ANA not qualifying Mathieu Perreault. Ducks have, however, given him contract offer they deem to be substantial. He's UFA unless he accepts.

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If he gets to UFA, that's a guy I think I'd take a hard look at if I'm the Rangers. I know there are concerns over size, and he won't help matters there at just 5'10, 185lbs, but he's got a ton of offensive talent, and actually put up a pretty solid year with the Ducks (18-25-43 in 65 games). Plus, he's from Qučbec! (that's a joke)




Assets: Proved capable of putting up huge numbers at lower levels. His playmaking skills and hockey sense are outstanding, and he's also very quick.

Flaws: At 5-10, 185 pounds, he's smallish by today's NHL standards. Therefore, he'll always have to prove himself against bigger opponents at the highest level.

Career Potential: Depth playmaker with a little upside.

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?5657


If we're talking third-line centers, presuming Miller is being penciled in for the fourth line, and Boyle is certainly not returning, this might actually be a solid option, as he's just 26 years old.

Also, here's a fancy stat image that I'll pretend to understand.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrZwD_6IYAAprPl.png:large

Good hockey player?

Pete
06-30-2014, 03:51 PM
:tweet: @TSNBobMcKenzie: ANA not qualifying Mathieu Perreault. Ducks have, however, given him contract offer they deem to be substantial. He's UFA unless he accepts.

--

If he gets to UFA, that's a guy I think I'd take a hard look at if I'm the Rangers. I know there are concerns over size, and he won't help matters there at just 5'10, 185lbs, but he's got a ton of offensive talent, and actually put up a pretty solid year with the Ducks (18-25-43 in 65 games). Plus, he's from Qučbec! (that's a joke)





http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?5657


If we're talking third-line centers, presuming Miller is being penciled in for the fourth line, and Boyle is certainly not returning, this might actually be a solid option, as he's just 26 years old.

Also, here's a fancy stat image that I'll pretend to understand.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrZwD_6IYAAprPl.png:large

Good hockey player?

Chart shows he gets a lot of zone starts against the lowest competition, according to the fancy stats that measure that. So, seems he was protected. Assuming AV can protect him the same way, he can probably produce.

Cash or Czech?
06-30-2014, 03:52 PM
I like Perrault. He could be a good option if we want to continue with three 2nd line centers or as a replacement if we package Stepan in a deal for a true elite center.

Future
06-30-2014, 03:59 PM
I know size wasn't our downfall against LA, but I don't think it would be worth bringing in another midget. Where's he going to play...between Hagelin and St. Louis? With Zucc?

Just doesn't make much sense, imo.

ThirtyONE
06-30-2014, 04:02 PM
When size is a problem on your team like it is on our team, it's hard to bring in another small player. He's a good player but his size IS an issue when you talk about him playing with MSL, Zucc, Hags, etc.

AmericanJesus
06-30-2014, 04:02 PM
Bring him in to be the tall guy on a MZA - Perreault - MSL line. Damn, we really need Marc-Andre Bergeron to come back to the NHL to center those two.

TwoMinutesForNothing
06-30-2014, 04:08 PM
I really doubt Miller is being penciled in on the 4th. That's the last place he should be playing with his lack of defensive awareness. Sure it will improve, but not to the point where he can play 4th line center for us. He's likely being penciled in to either Poiuliot or Richards' spot.

ThirtyONE
06-30-2014, 04:28 PM
I really doubt Miller is being penciled in on the 4th. That's the last place he should be playing with his lack of defensive awareness. Sure it will improve, but not to the point where he can play 4th line center for us. He's likely being penciled in to either Poiuliot or Richards' spot.

I wouldn't pencil Miller in anywhere if I were the Rangers. Make the kid earn the spot. He hasn't showen much of anything, IMO.

Pete
06-30-2014, 04:28 PM
I wouldn't pencil Miller in anywhere if I were the Rangers. Make the kid earn the spot. He hasn't showen much of anything, IMO.

He's shown he's outgrown the AHL.

Phil in Absentia
06-30-2014, 04:30 PM
He's shown he's outgrown the AHL.

Outgrowing the AHL doesn't necessarily mean growing the NHL though — that's the thing with him. He's sorta in hockey purgatory, and the only way to really get him out of it would be to just baptize him in fire with real minutes and real opportunity with offensive players (not fourth-liners).

Personally, I'd kinda like to see what he can do with MSL on his right.

Pete
06-30-2014, 04:32 PM
Outgrowing the AHL doesn't necessarily mean growing the NHL though — that's the thing with him. He's sorta in hockey purgatory, and the only way to really get him out of it would be to just baptize him in fire with real minutes and real opportunity with offensive players (not fourth-liners).

Personally, I'd kinda like to see what he can do with MSL on his right.

Considering he's going into his last year of his ELC, you gotta see what he is.

TwoMinutesForNothing
06-30-2014, 04:34 PM
He's not playing the game he needs to play to succeed. He needs to focus more on grinding and battling because those would be his strengths in the NHL. The thing holding him back probably is his AHL success because he comes up the NHL and tries to play the same way, not realizing he can't pull that off in the NHL. I think they might be frustrated because he may not be listening when they tell him this. Could explain those comments by AV which I believe were something to the effect of "He's either going to get it or be a really good AHLer."

Pete
06-30-2014, 04:36 PM
The team is just as much at fault.

"Hey kid, go down the AHL and be a first line center in an offensive role. But when you come back up, you'll be a 3rd line grinding winger. We're just trying to prepare you by having you score a lot in the AHL, but that won't be your job in the NHL..."

Sounds legit.

TwoMinutesForNothing
06-30-2014, 04:39 PM
The team is just as much at fault.

"Hey kid, go down the AHL and be a first line center in an offensive role. But when you come back up, you'll be a 3rd line grinding winger. We're just trying to prepare you by having you score a lot in the AHL, but that won't be your job in the NHL..."

Sounds legit.

Well you can't blame him for dominating the AHL, he just needs to realize the difference in the level of competition. It's hard to ask a player not to dominate guys with skill when he has the ability to do it. Even if they were asking him you would have to wonder if he was listening. It could also be on the Hartford coaching. Either way it's obvious that the answer is to leave him in the NHL and it's time to sink or swim.

Pete
06-30-2014, 04:41 PM
Well you can't blame him for dominating the AHL, he just needs to realize the difference in the level of competition. It's hard to ask a player not to dominate guys with skill when he has the ability to do it. Even if they were asking him you would have to wonder if he was listening. It could also be on the Hartford coaching. Either way it's obvious that the answer is to leave him in the NHL and it's time to sink or swim.

I blame the team for yo-yoing him. I don't blame him for playing as best he could. But I don't know why you'd ask a very young to change his role as well as his position in the NHL as opposed to the AHL. If you want him on the wing, send him down and have him learn the wing. It's obvious he has no comfort level there.

Future
06-30-2014, 04:43 PM
Outgrowing the AHL doesn't necessarily mean growing the NHL though — that's the thing with him. He's sorta in hockey purgatory, and the only way to really get him out of it would be to just baptize him in fire with real minutes and real opportunity with offensive players (not fourth-liners).

Personally, I'd kinda like to see what he can do with MSL on his right.
Agreed. He's never really been given the opportunity to thrive when he's been with the big club. I actually think he'd be a nice fit between Hags and MSL b/c I think he's a lot more willing and capable to go to the dirty areas than Richards was. Plus, with all that speed, it should open up the ice even more.

The kid is a skill guy, not a grinder. He needs the chance to actually do that.

Morphinity
06-30-2014, 04:44 PM
Fuckin' Mathieu Perrault.

I would love this guy because he's tenacious and has some upside, but he's so small. A line MSL - Perrault - Zuccarello would represent the Lollipop Guild.

ThirtyONE
06-30-2014, 05:28 PM
He's shown he's outgrown the AHL.

Maybe but that doesn't mean much in the NHL. I'm all for giving him an opportunity but "opportunity" is where I stop. I wouldn't put him in the lineup for next season while trying to build the team if I were Sather. I don't think you can count on him being a NHL player for a full 82 games when he hasn't shown he can do that yet.

Pete
06-30-2014, 05:29 PM
Maybe but that doesn't mean much in the NHL. I'm all for giving him an opportunity but "opportunity" is where I stop. I wouldn't put him in the lineup for next season while trying to build the team if I were Sather. I don't think you can count on him being a NHL player for a full 82 games when he hasn't shown he can do that yet.

Then never play rookies because you'll always be wondering if they can do it until they do it.

TwoMinutesForNothing
06-30-2014, 05:31 PM
Then never play rookies because you'll always be wondering if they can do it until they do it.

Isn't this your normal philosophy?;)

Pete
06-30-2014, 05:37 PM
Isn't this your normal philosophy?;)

LOL, it may sometimes seem like it, but not really. When someone is saying "X player can replace that 3rd liner because they dominated the SEL"...Of course I'm going to laugh at that. That's my way. It doesn't mean I wouldn't give the guy a chance, it just means I wouldn't expect them to just be able to walk right on JUST because they dominated another league. Everyone needs to get their feet wet.

It's basically the expectation of results that I don't buy. I'll never buy into "You will get X in the NHL because this guy gave you Y in the Finnish league."

AmericanJesus
06-30-2014, 05:37 PM
He needs to be a center. He hasn't worked out on the wing and last year with Stepan, Brassard, Richards and Moore/Boyle we didn't have room for a center. That's fine at the time. Now we do have room for a center, so it's time to see if he can fill that role. I'd give him 30 games to start the season and see what happens, then re-assess.

momentum
07-01-2014, 05:23 AM
As usual I don't undertand the Miller hate, I've always liked him, yes he makes mistakes like any young player would, especially one who most likely has issues with nerves and confidence after being yo yo'ed up and down and put in different roles constantly....he's probably second guessing himself constantly...I think what Miller needs is a REAL chance...pencil him in as the 3rd line center and BE PATIENT with him.....help him with that role and give him TIME.....ok if come halfway through he season he is somehow blowing chunks and losing us games then reevaluate the situation but this is what should be done.
I think Miller could be an excellent high energy 3rd line center who can provide some offense. Just like Kreider last year though IMO he needs to learn on the job now, there isn't anything left for him in the AHL...if he's gonna learn the NHL he has to play in it and adapt, it may take some time but so be it.
Miller would be my 3rd line center at the start of next year no matter what, I'd really try to teach him and support him in that position. If he fails he fails, but like Kreider last year...it's time to do or die.

Respecttheblue
07-01-2014, 07:11 AM
Agreed. He's never really been given the opportunity to thrive when he's been with the big club. I actually think he'd be a nice fit between Hags and MSL b/c I think he's a lot more willing and capable to go to the dirty areas than Richards was. Plus, with all that speed, it should open up the ice even more.

The kid is a skill guy, not a grinder. He needs the chance to actually do that.

That's going to take management to exercise a quality they have in short supply in these situations; patience.


...
"Hey kid, go down the AHL and be a first line center in an offensive role. But when you come back up, you'll be a 3rd line grinding winger. We're just trying to prepare you by having you score a lot in the AHL, but that won't be your job in the NHL..."

Sounds legit.

Yes, something like that.

I'm all for giving the kid some consistent time in the NHL, and the chance to develop some consistency of his own. He's had "fits and starts/up and down" looks here, and IMO that's not what it takes to foster the development of a player at the NHL level.

I'll agree he's not lit it up on the Yo-Yo plan, but I am not ready to say he won't find his game at the NHL level yet. How long did it take Boyle? About 107 NHL games ... he was given the chance to underwhelm for an entire 71 game season before finding his level of success.

Future
07-01-2014, 08:59 AM
I'm all for giving the kid some consistent time in the NHL, and the chance to develop some consistency of his own. He's had "fits and starts/up and down" looks here, and IMO that's not what it takes to foster the development of a player at the NHL level.

I'll agree he's not lit it up on the Yo-Yo plan, but I am not ready to say he won't find his game at the NHL level yet. How long did it take Boyle? About 107 NHL games ... he was given the chance to underwhelm for an entire 71 game season before finding his level of success.
What success? lol

There are a couple of big differences between Boyle and Miller. A) Boyle was never really figured to be a top 6 guy I don't think. B) Last year, there were actually capable forwards playing in the top 9 so you couldn't just hand Miller a spot.

NYR2711
07-01-2014, 09:17 AM
As usual I don't undertand the Miller hate, I've always liked him, yes he makes mistakes like any young player would, especially one who most likely has issues with nerves and confidence after being yo yo'ed up and down and put in different roles constantly....he's probably second guessing himself constantly...I think what Miller needs is a REAL chance...pencil him in as the 3rd line center and BE PATIENT with him.....help him with that role and give him TIME.....ok if come halfway through he season he is somehow blowing chunks and losing us games then reevaluate the situation but this is what should be done.
I think Miller could be an excellent high energy 3rd line center who can provide some offense. Just like Kreider last year though IMO he needs to learn on the job now, there isn't anything left for him in the AHL...if he's gonna learn the NHL he has to play in it and adapt, it may take some time but so be it.
Miller would be my 3rd line center at the start of next year no matter what, I'd really try to teach him and support him in that position. If he fails he fails, but like Kreider last year...it's time to do or die.

Once again though, its not hate for JT, its what has come out. Back in April, AV came out and said that he hasn't earned a spot in the NHL yet, and if he wants to play here, he needs to show more commitment both on and off the ice. That says something about the kid that he isn't where he should be. Even Torts had issues with him. I hope the kid gets a chance, but based off of what the coach has seen of him and dealt with with him, Im more inclined to go by what he is saying, which is that he needs a lot of work to play here and he isn't a lock for a spot here.

Slobberknocker
07-01-2014, 09:33 AM
i like rome's suggestion here. they should put his locker right next to MSL's and instruct him to watch how a pro does it.

this will be an interesting year here. clearly were losing some key components on our team due to the cap, and for us success will hinge upon some of these young guys coming in here and being productive. AV will have to coach, i.e., teach a bit. I'm looking forward to this, given the fact that it felt like he was very young player adverse at times last year.

Pete
07-01-2014, 09:48 AM
i like rome's suggestion here. they should put his locker right next to MSL's and instruct him to watch how a pro does it.

this will be an interesting year here. clearly were losing some key components on our team due to the cap, and for us success will hinge upon some of these young guys coming in here and being productive. AV will have to coach, i.e., teach a bit. I'm looking forward to this, given the fact that it felt like he was very young player adverse at times last year.This is not his forté.