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Travis Bickle
06-21-2014, 07:05 PM
For one thing, Brooks reports that the Rangers are dangling a three or four-year deal worth about $4 million per season to Anton Stralman (pictured). Some likely look at that as a fine offer for the unrestricted free agent, yet the advanced stats community labels him as a “secret star.” It should be interesting to see if the 27-year-old draws much more interest than that offer would suggest if he does hit unrestricted free agency, especially since the market is pretty dry.

The Rangers hope to keep Stralman in the fold, but it sounds like Justin Falk played his last game for the team. Brooks reports that they’ll pass on qualifying the 25-year-old at a $1.025 million clip, allowing him to become a UFA.


http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/21/report-rangers-offer-stralman-about-4m-will-let-falk-walk/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Pete
06-21-2014, 07:10 PM
Eh. High end, but market value.

Phil in Absentia
06-21-2014, 07:29 PM
Not high at all. I keep pointing it out, but Nik Hjlamarsson's contract with Chicago ($4.1M over five years) is gonna be critical here. That's Strålman's worth, and to the market, it's probably even higher, provided he gets to July 1st. He'll have no shortage of teams offering for his services as a top-4 D.

Morphinity
06-21-2014, 07:46 PM
Please take it.

BlueJay
06-21-2014, 07:49 PM
Think he wants 5 years.

Phil in Absentia
06-21-2014, 07:49 PM
Think he wants 5 years.

So do I. I think he wants Hjalmarsson's contract, verbatim. It probably has a limited NTC in it to boot.

Puck Head
06-21-2014, 09:04 PM
Remember 3 months ago.

Stralman 2.2 million per year
Boyle 1.7 million per year
D Moore 1.1 million per year

:)

momentum
06-21-2014, 09:45 PM
I think he's gonna want 5 years. I'd be fine with that at 4 mil per. Trade Staal for help on 1st line center and let cheaper d like Diaz/Mcilrath fill in there.

RangersRule2
06-21-2014, 09:45 PM
On to more important things :D...who can solve the puzzle Brooks gave at the end:


Which former coach turned broadcaster wandered into the wrong coaches’ room at the Garden prior to Game 4 of the finals and announced loudly to Blueshirts associate Scott Arniel (whom our man either did not recognize or did not know for which team he worked): “Get it done tonight so we don’t have to go back to L.A.?”

Captain Clutch
06-21-2014, 09:49 PM
On to more important things :D...who can solve the puzzle Brooks gave at the end:

Olczyk?

RangersRule2
06-21-2014, 09:54 PM
Olczyk?

Coach....I'm thinking Milbury or one of the Canadian TV guys ? :D

Morphinity
06-21-2014, 10:39 PM
Remember 3 months ago.

Stralman 2.2 million per year
Boyle 1.7 million per year
D Moore 1.1 million per year

:)

Yeah, and Kreider 4 million :rolleyes:

Puck Head
06-21-2014, 10:57 PM
Yeah, and Kreider 4 million :rolleyes:

General consensus on Kredier has been right around 2 million

Pete
06-21-2014, 11:08 PM
I think he's gonna want 5 years. I'd be fine with that at 4 mil per. Trade Staal for help on 1st line center and let cheaper d like Diaz/Mcilrath fill in there.


On to more important things :D...who can solve the puzzle Brooks gave at the end:


Olczyk?

Keenan.

Mike
06-21-2014, 11:40 PM
Keenan.

Can't be Keenan. He doesn't travel with them. Pierre is my guess.

Captain Clutch
06-21-2014, 11:54 PM
Coach....I'm thinking Milbury or one of the Canadian TV guys ? :D

He coached the Penguins

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 12:42 AM
Remember 3 months ago.

Stralman 2.2 million per year
Boyle 1.7 million per year
D Moore 1.1 million per year

:)

Values fluctuate throughout the season all the time.

All I know is with the market in his corner right now, he's not coming in under it.

Pete
06-22-2014, 01:43 AM
Can't be Keenan. He doesn't travel with them. Pierre is my guess.

He does for SportsNet.

Slobberknocker
06-22-2014, 05:47 AM
it looks to be a competitive offer. will be interested to see what his value is if he doesnt take it.

momentum
06-22-2014, 06:02 AM
it looks to be a competitive offer. will be interested to see what his value is if he doesnt take it.

He wants stability for his family not having to move with small children all the time, he obviously wants years but also its important that he has a secure role on a team (not being on the bubble or risking a trade at any time). The edge we have obviously is that he's already playing for us and he does have a solid important role on our team so continuing for us would mean one less uprooting for his family. I can imagine some kind of no movement clause would be valuable for him but not sure he would get that. I think if we offered him 5 years with some kind of no movement clause he would sign right away maybe for even a bit under 4 million.

Jules
06-22-2014, 07:16 AM
If his goal is stability after being bounced around, $16M in 4 years or $20M in 5 years or thereabouts to live and play in New York City can do the trick. It would be a steal and I'd be absolutely delighted to keep him in the mix. He's been a vital part of our defense and might even make Staal somewhat expendable should the right deal come along. I'm not advocating trading Staal, but it would give us tremendous depth on D and a chance to ease Allen and McIlrath into their roles.

Mike
06-22-2014, 08:54 AM
Stralman needs to be signed. Defensemen, as do goalies, find their game late. D usually mid to late 20's, which is where Anton is now. We'll regret losing him. He's done nothing but improve since the first day he's entered the league. They might be baby steps, but it's still progression, which is what you're looking for in any player. Does he have faults? Sure. Show me guys that don't. He's been a willing combatant to improve. Get it done.

AmericanJesus
06-22-2014, 09:01 AM
If we sign Stralman for $4m per I think we need to move Klein. I can't see us paying $12.5m for our right defense and boxing out one of McIlrath or Allen from competing for that last D spot at just under $2m less in cap space.

I'm also not inclined to move a right D over to the left side to trade Staal who has been good for us this past season. If we did trade Staal to improve our top 6 forwards, I think we should then look for a UFA to play on the left side.

Vodka Drunkenski
06-22-2014, 09:17 AM
Still think Staal gets moved

josh
06-22-2014, 09:40 AM
I really don't want to pay Rozsival this much money. Again.

NYR2711
06-22-2014, 10:27 AM
I really don't want to pay Rozsival this much money. Again.

This. He has played well defensively, but he was brought in originally for his offensive play which has pretty much disappeared. I would rather keep Staal, pull Klein up to the second pair and bring in a rookie. I don't want to lock him up for 4 or 5 years either, nor do I want to gee out any more NTC, especially on defense. I hate NTC/NMC, and for a guy like Stralman, he isn't worth giving one to.

CreaseCrusader91
06-22-2014, 10:35 AM
This. He has played well defensively, but he was brought in originally for his offensive play which has pretty much disappeared. I would rather keep Staal, pull Klein up to the second pair and bring in a rookie. I don't want to lock him up for 4 or 5 years either, nor do I want to gee out any more NTC, especially on defense. I hate NTC/NMC, and for a guy like Stralman, he isn't worth giving one to.

He reinvented himself to be a shutdown defensive guy. This has been the case the last two seasons.

He was an offensive guy when we took a flyer on him in 2011. He's been one of our best defenders, and advanced stats show how he doesn't always get the credit he deserves.

josh
06-22-2014, 10:42 AM
He reinvented himself to be a shutdown defensive guy. This has been the case the last two seasons.

He was an offensive guy when we took a flyer on him in 2011. He's been one of our best defenders, and advanced stats show how he doesn't always get the credit he deserves.

No, it was the case for 4 months during the last 2 seasons. He had a good playoff. He was still inconsistent and not alway reliable defensively, during the season.

NYR2711
06-22-2014, 10:48 AM
No, it was the case for 4 months during the last 2 seasons. He had a good playoff. He was still inconsistent and not alway reliable defensively, during the season.

This, and even in the playoffs he was still inconsistent. He was still beaten pretty easily, and when he is beaten, he usually takes a lazy bad penalty. Id rather watch the younger guys make those mistakes than him. Staal is a better shut down defensmen, and better with his positioning and stick work than Stralman is. did rather keep Staal.

jsm7302
06-22-2014, 10:57 AM
Staal is quite injury prone and although, I enjoy when he amps up his physical game; he is our most valuable trade piece and Anton can fill his role just the same. We need an upgrade in the top 6 after losing Richards and Staal is our ticket to get there without too much pain to the roster. Give Stralman his 3.85/4 and start taking calls on Staal.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Pete
06-22-2014, 11:18 AM
Stralman was consistently good all year and got better as the season went on. He had a phenomenal playoffs, far better than any other right D we had, and better than Staal.

The question is if he can do it for the next 4 years. I think he can.

Rozsival was already on a bad hip and knees at this point. Bad comparison.

AmericanJesus
06-22-2014, 11:29 AM
If Dominic Moore suddenly started scoring 25 goals a year but wasn't as good as he had been defensively no one would be commenting on him being brought in to provide defense. I don't care about why Stralman was brought in. I care about his value to the team now.

CreaseCrusader91
06-22-2014, 11:42 AM
No, it was the case for 4 months during the last 2 seasons. He had a good playoff. He was still inconsistent and not alway reliable defensively, during the season.
We can agree to disagree because the stats tell a different story.

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 12:06 PM
If we sign Stralman for $4m per I think we need to move Klein. I can't see us paying $12.5m for our right defense and boxing out one of McIlrath or Allen from competing for that last D spot at just under $2m less in cap space.

I'm also not inclined to move a right D over to the left side to trade Staal who has been good for us this past season. If we did trade Staal to improve our top 6 forwards, I think we should then look for a UFA to play on the left side.

Same, simply because it means the entire right side of the ice is locked up for what, five years? Goodbye McIlrath, Allen and anyone else who thinks they have even a snowballs chance in hell at making this team.

Morphinity
06-22-2014, 12:12 PM
The difference with Roszival and Stralman is that Roszival was going to be a top-pairing guy and couldn't handle it. Stralman won't be that unless there's an injury or a major lineup shakeup. Stralman is perfect for his role on this team. If you see him take $4.5x5 on a team like the Oilers and be their #1 or #2 guy, then you will see his weaknesses get exploited. But as a #4 or even #3 guy, I don't think we're in for a Roszival-esque disappointment.

Puck Head
06-22-2014, 12:25 PM
I'm on the fence here, with McD, Girardi contacts...this Stralman contract, and then Staal next summer...
That is going to be one very expensive blue line.

Morphinity
06-22-2014, 12:29 PM
I'm on the fence here, with McD, Girardi contacts...this Stralman contract, and then Staal next summer...
That is going to be one very expensive blue line.

McDonagh is on a great contract that only gets better as the cap goes up. Girardi... yeah, gotta hope he can hold up for a few years, but it's not looking good.

If Stralman takes $4M, I think we're fine.

Staal is the interesting case here. I'm not looking forward to that situation.

Mike
06-22-2014, 12:35 PM
We can only hope that Stralman has Rozy's work ethic. First guy on, last guy off. You never appreciate what you have until it's gone.

Puck Head
06-22-2014, 12:40 PM
McDonagh is on a great contract that only gets better as the cap goes up. Girardi... yeah, gotta hope he can hold up for a few years, but it's not looking good.

If Stralman takes $4M, I think we're fine.

Staal is the interesting case here. I'm not looking forward to that situation.

We could end up with 25-30 million tied up on our defense.
Not sure if any other teams with that big of a hit.

Morphinity
06-22-2014, 12:49 PM
We could end up with 25-30 million tied up on our defense.
Not sure if any other teams with that big of a hit.

Hopefully that means that no other teams have a defense as good as ours. :)

Ranger Lothbrok
06-22-2014, 01:13 PM
I gotta say, I am so happy for Stralman and what he's done for himself. He went from a scrap heap walk-on who was so off the radar that Torts didn't know who he was to an indispensable top-4 guy. If anyone deserves a new contract it's him, and that price is great for what he brings to the table.

josh
06-22-2014, 02:20 PM
The difference with Roszival and Stralman is that Roszival was going to be a top-pairing guy and couldn't handle it. Stralman won't be that unless there's an injury or a major lineup shakeup. Stralman is perfect for his role on this team. If you see him take $4.5x5 on a team like the Oilers and be their #1 or #2 guy, then you will see his weaknesses get exploited. But as a #4 or even #3 guy, I don't think we're in for a Roszival-esque disappointment.

So you justify paying Stralman as much because he cant do as much as Rozsival? At least Rozsival was able to play top line minutes. It wasn't his fault Girardi wasnt ready. So I don't get this post at all.

josh
06-22-2014, 02:22 PM
I gotta say, I am so happy for Stralman and what he's done for himself. He went from a scrap heap walk-on who was so off the radar that Torts didn't know who he was to an indispensable top-4 guy. If anyone deserves a new contract it's him, and that price is great for what he brings to the table.

Now he deserves money because you didn't know him? This is getting ridiculous.

So Nashty
06-22-2014, 02:37 PM
Wonder if he would take less for a nmc. Might be worth exploring that option if it means we can sign him for less.

josh
06-22-2014, 02:38 PM
Wonder if he would take less for a nmc. Might be worth exploring that option if it means we can sign him for less.

Wow... The only thing that could make this situation worse...

So Nashty
06-22-2014, 02:41 PM
Wow... The only thing that could make this situation worse...

WOW... I said if he takes less money. I don't see how that makes it worst. Obviously it would have to be a significant drop. Burr since he wants stability...

Morphinity
06-22-2014, 03:27 PM
So you justify paying Stralman as much because he cant do as much as Rozsival? At least Rozsival was able to play top line minutes. It wasn't his fault Girardi wasnt ready. So I don't get this post at all.

Stralman is getting $4M, not the $5M that Rozsival got, to do less. So, yes, I am fine with it.

Rozsival was getting top-line money (at the time) to not play top-line caliber hockey. Stralman will be getting 2nd line money to play 2nd line hockey.

Vodka Drunkenski
06-22-2014, 03:42 PM
Rozsival won a cup.

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 03:43 PM
The issue with Rozsíval was two fold:

1. He was re-signed with the Redden signing. The Rangers needed one of them. Not both. Re-signing both was horrific to our cap situation.

2. The fans simply turned on him, and like other Rangers in the past (Nedved, Malík), he collapsed under the pressure of being booed by the fans who should have been cheering him out of his funk. How well he's done with Phoenix and Chicago since the trade is proof in the pudding that he was never actually the issue.

Vodka Drunkenski
06-22-2014, 03:48 PM
He wasn't even bad when the fans boo'ed him. They needed a reason to boo and decided to pick him as the whipping boy after a turn over and never let up.

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 03:51 PM
He wasn't even bad when the fans boo'ed him. They needed a reason to boo and decided to pick him as the whipping boy after a turn over and never let up.

Yup. I actually think with AV, he'd have excelled. Water under the bridge, for sure, but he did a ton for this team, and if that's the same role Strålman is going to have for around the same price, I'm perfectly OK with it.

NYR2711
06-22-2014, 03:57 PM
The issue with Rozsíval was two fold:

1. He was re-signed with the Redden signing. The Rangers needed one of them. Not both. Re-signing both was horrific to our cap situation.

2. The fans simply turned on him, and like other Rangers in the past (Nedved, Malík), he collapsed under the pressure of being booed by the fans who should have been cheering him out of his funk. How well he's done with Phoenix and Chicago since the trade is proof in the pudding that he was never actually the issue.

which is similar to the situation we are in now. We just locked up Girardi to a long term contract that IMO, is going to hurt us because I'm not sure he is going to last that long and still play at the level he is signed to play at, plus he is a pretty big cap hit that can't go anywhere if his play does dwindle down. We also have Mac locked up for a good contract, but still has a high cap hit. We also have Klein who is still on a decent contract, but still a pretty high Cao hit for someone in the 5th spot, and plays the same side as Stralman. Then, we also have Staal, who IMO is a better defensive and shut down defenseman than Stralman, due to get a big, long term contract.

I don't see the need to re-sign him when we need a defensman that can shoot the puck, something Stralman was supposed to bring in for us and now doesnt. I'd rather bring up a kid or sign a guy that can shoot the puck at least. And in no way would I give him a NTC/NMC.

Mike
06-22-2014, 03:59 PM
The issue with Rozsíval was two fold:

1. He was re-signed with the Redden signing. The Rangers needed one of them. Not both. Re-signing both was horrific to our cap situation.

2. The fans simply turned on him, and like other Rangers in the past (Nedved, Malík), he collapsed under the pressure of being booed by the fans who should have been cheering him out of his funk. How well he's done with Phoenix and Chicago since the trade is proof in the pudding that he was never actually the issue.
Rozy struggled after the hip surgery. He was very hard on himself because he wasn't able to turn, and pivot the same way before his injury, and surgery. He's one of the hardest working guys you'll come across, and he's also a good teammate. He needed time to get through the injury, and adjust to it. He's recovered well, all from being a hard worker.

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 04:05 PM
which is similar to the situation we are in now. We just locked up Girardi to a long term contract that IMO, is going to hurt us because I'm not sure he is going to last that long and still play at the level he is signed to play at, plus he is a pretty big cap hit that can't go anywhere if his play does dwindle down. We also have Mac locked up for a good contract, but still has a high cap hit. We also have Klein who is still on a decent contract, but still a pretty high Cao hit for someone in the 5th spot, and plays the same side as Stralman. Then, we also have Staal, who IMO is a better defensive and shut down defenseman than Stralman, due to get a big, long term contract.

I don't see the need to re-sign him when we need a defensman that can shoot the puck, something Stralman was supposed to bring in for us and now doesnt. I'd rather bring up a kid or sign a guy that can shoot the puck at least. And in no way would I give him a NTC/NMC.

Well, sorta. Slightly different now, if Strålman is retained, as Klein can be moved. He doesn't own a NTC or NMC of any kind and is locked up another five years at a great cap hit for a top-4 D ($2.9M). There'll be no shortage of teams interested in his services if the Rangers need to make room.

NYR2711
06-22-2014, 04:10 PM
Well, sorta. Slightly different now, if Strålman is retained, as Klein can be moved. He doesn't own a NTC or NMC of any kind and is locked up another five years at a great cap hit for a top-4 D ($2.9M). There'll be no shortage of teams interested in his services if the Rangers need to make room.

But this is exactly why I would rather let Stralman walk with Klein signed to a ver good contract. I'd rather slot him up and use the money Stralman would get to sign a forward to help this team score some goals. I was also galling about Stralman getting a NTC/NMC in his contract, not Klein.

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 04:16 PM
But this is exactly why I would rather let Stralman walk with Klein signed to a ver good contract. I'd rather slot him up and use the money Stralman would get to sign a forward to help this team score some goals. I was also galling about Stralman getting a NTC/NMC in his contract, not Klein.

And that's fair, but there is value in knowing exactly what you have in Strålman that you can argue is of more value than what you still aren't totally sure you have (or don't) in Klein. He's been skated mostly sheltered minutes with John Moore, so outside of the few games here and there where he's moved up, there's simply no guarantee that chemistry you see between Staal and Strålman, for example, resonates with Klein instead.

NYR2711
06-22-2014, 04:22 PM
And that's fair, but there is value in knowing exactly what you have in Strålman that you can argue is of more value than what you still aren't totally sure you have (or don't) in Klein. He's been skated mostly sheltered minutes with John Moore, so outside of the few games here and there where he's moved up, there's simply no guarantee that chemistry you see between Staal and Strålman, for example, resonates with Klein instead.

I totally get this, and it is a huge concern, but I just don't see how we can upgrade the front lines and keep Stralman on a big contract like he wants, and especially if they give in and give him a NTC/NMC. I honestly think Allen can come in and play good for this team next season. I'd rather give him a shot than sign another long term defensman that we possibly wouldn't be able to move if we needed to. Like I said earlier, it's bad enough we are stuck with Girardi long term no matter what, I don't want to do the same with Stralman either.

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 04:24 PM
I totally get this, and it is a huge concern, but I just don't see how we can upgrade the front lines and keep Stralman on a big contract like he wants, and especially if they give in and give him a NTC/NMC. I honestly think Allen can come in and play good for this team next season. I'd rather give him a shot than sign another long term defensman that we possibly wouldn't be able to move if we needed to. Like I said earlier, it's bad enough we are stuck with Girardi long term no matter what, I don't want to do the same with Stralman either.

Well, remember, I'm of the line of thought that says if Strålman is retained, Klein gets traded for draft picks at the Draft. If Strålman walks, Klein is kept, so regardless, one of McIlrath or Allen will have an opportunity to make the team out of camp next year.

NYR2711
06-22-2014, 04:29 PM
Well, remember, I'm of the line of thought that says if Strålman is retained, Klein gets traded for draft picks at the Draft. If Strålman walks, Klein is kept, so regardless, one of McIlrath or Allen will have an opportunity to make the team out of camp next year.

I see it as if we re-sign Stralman and give him a NTC/NMC, that's 2 defensemen, technically 3 because Mac ain't going anywhere, that can't be moved for at least 4 years, and that are eating a pretty big chunk of the cap, no matter what happens. I know it's the same with Staal, but like I said, Staal IMO is a better overall defensemen than Stralman and can slot up if need be and play top pairing minutes, and is still one of the leagues top shut down defensmen, something Mac is turning into with his play, and something Girardi and Stralman never will be.

Pete
06-22-2014, 06:12 PM
Klein is garbage. There's reason he was playing under 13 minutes in the finals.

AmericanJesus
06-22-2014, 06:24 PM
There is a world of difference between a nmc/full ntc and say a limited ntc where he can pick a number of teams he won't accept a trade to. I'd give him 8-10 teams he can't be moved to, 4 years $16m or 5 at $20m. And flip Klein at the draft with our 2nd to try to find a top 10-15 pick.

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 06:28 PM
Klein is garbage. There's reason he was playing under 13 minutes in the finals.

No, he isn't. This is what makes having these types of discussions so difficult when terms like that are being assigned. The only guy on this team who really doesn't look like an NHL player is Falk, and they already said they're walking away from him.

Klein is an NHL player, and probably a top-4 defender on most teams. He just makes a lot and has a lot of term left for a third pairing D on this squad. He has value, no matter what, even if his value is greater to another club.

Garbage players are moved for nothing, like Hugh Jessiman. This guy could probably get the team at least a second-round pick in this coming draft moved on his own.


There is a world of difference between a nmc/full ntc and say a limited ntc where he can pick a number of teams he won't accept a trade to. I'd give him 8-10 teams he can't be moved to, 4 years $16m or 5 at $20m. And flip Klein at the draft with our 2nd to try to find a top 10-15 pick.

You really think that's gonna get you into the first round? I'm not sure. I'd be OK with moving him to team desperate for defense, like Buffalo (#31), Florida (#32) or Calgary (#34).

AmericanJesus
06-22-2014, 06:40 PM
No, he isn't. This is what makes having these types of discussions so difficult. The only guy on this team who really doesn't look like an NHL player is Falk, and they already said they're walking away from him.

Klein is an NHL player, and probably a top-4 defender on most teams. He just makes a lot and has a lot of term left for a third pairing D on this squad.

You really think that's gonna get you into the first round? I'm not sure. I'd be OK with moving him to team desperate for defense, like Buffalo (#31), Florida (#32) or Calgary (#34).

Probably not. We'd probably have to add some but Klein has value at the draft if we re-sign Stralman prior.

Pete
06-22-2014, 06:46 PM
No, he isn't. This is what makes having these types of discussions so difficult when terms like that are being assigned. The only guy on this team who really doesn't look like an NHL player is Falk, and they already said they're walking away from him.

Klein is an NHL player, and probably a top-4 defender on most teams. He just makes a lot and has a lot of term left for a third pairing D on this squad. He has value, no matter what, even if his value is greater to another club.

Garbage players are moved for nothing, like Hugh Jessiman. This guy could probably get the team at least a second-round pick in this coming draft moved on his own.



You really think that's gonna get you into the first round? I'm not sure. I'd be OK with moving him to team desperate for defense, like Buffalo (#31), Florida (#32) or Calgary (#34).

Yes, good forbid you use a superlative or be a little sensationalist steering Phil, or he'll correct your opinion. :rolleyes:

I think he's garbage. You don't have to agree, or use the same word I use, but I'll use "garbage".

Vodka Drunkenski
06-22-2014, 06:49 PM
Not garbage but easily replaced.

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 06:51 PM
Probably not. We'd probably have to add some but Klein has value at the draft if we re-sign Stralman prior.

Right. I'm thinking to get into the first round in general, especially 10-15, you're talking about a package of our second-rounder, Klein and probably another forward prospect who has some NHL upside — Fast maybe?


Yes, good forbid you use a superlative or be a little sensationalist steering Phil, or he'll correct your opinion. :rolleyes:

I think he's garbage. You don't have to agree, or use the same word I use, but I'll use "garbage".

And that's fine, you can use it. Just understand that that sensationalism isn't well met in most cases. It's the same reason it was so hard for us to have objective discussions about Dubinsky or Callahan or Drury in the past. I try to stay away from that kind of superlative labeling myself. You don't have to, but I'm going to be there to disagree with you when you're calling NHL players "garbage" in the future. :D

Pete
06-22-2014, 06:54 PM
Right. I'm thinking to get into the first round in general, especially 10-15, you're talking about a package of our second-rounder, Klein and probably another forward prospect who has some NHL upside — Fast maybe?



And that's fine, you can use it. Just understand that that sensationalism isn't well met in most cases. It's the same reason it was so hard for us to have objective discussions about Dubinsky or Callahan or Drury in the past. I try to stay away from that kind of superlative labeling myself. You don't have to, but I'm going to be there to disagree with you when you're calling NHL players "garbage" in the future. :D

That's fine, I'll ignore these replies in the future.

Puck Head
06-22-2014, 07:06 PM
Wasn't Klein exactly at 14 minutes (even strength) during the finals?
And although he doesn't bring offense, he did exactly what we needed from him.

Heck, didn't he lead our team in +/- in the playoffs??

Pete
06-22-2014, 07:11 PM
Wasn't Klein exactly at 14 minutes (even strength) during the finals?
And although he doesn't bring offense, he did exactly what we needed from him.

Heck, didn't he lead our team in +/- in the playoffs??

13:17

Didn't lead team in +/-.

Played sheltered minutes with favourable matchups and zone starts.

Doesn't matter what anyone thinks, it's clear AV doesn't trust him.

Phil in Absentia
06-22-2014, 07:16 PM
13:17

Didn't lead team in +/-.

Played sheltered minutes with favourable matchups and zone starts.

Doesn't matter what anyone thinks, it's clear AV doesn't trust him.

This much we agree on. I'm much more comfortable with Staal/Strålman as a second pairing than I would be force-feeding Staal/Klein simply because the Rangers balked on price.

Sometimes you have to pay for quality.

Dunny
06-22-2014, 07:19 PM
I don't think you can say say AV doesn't trust him. At best that's speculation. What we do know however is there are 4 guys ahead of him that are better than he is. I think he's be just fine with Staal.

Puck Head
06-22-2014, 08:11 PM
13:17

Didn't lead team in +/-.

Played sheltered minutes with favourable matchups and zone starts.

Doesn't matter what anyone thinks, it's clear AV doesn't trust him.

You are right on +/-
He was second on team with plus 8 (he lead all defenseman).
Surprising he could do that at 13-14 minutes per game with such as shit partner such as Moore ;)

;)

As far as time, you said "finals" before I thought.
IN the finals he averaged I believe exactly 14 minutes per game.

Pete
06-22-2014, 08:13 PM
I don't think you can say say AV doesn't trust him. At best that's speculation. What we do know however is there are 4 guys ahead of him that are better than he is. I think he's be just fine with Staal.

everything discussed here is speculation. based on data, zone starts, ice time, quality of competition, it's clear he's not trusted.

Pete
06-22-2014, 08:14 PM
You are right on +/-
He was second on team with plus 8 (he lead all defenseman).
Surprising he could do that at 13-14 minutes per game with such as shit partner such as Moore ;)

;)

As far as time, you said "finals" before I thought.
IN the finals he averaged I believe exactly 14 minutes per game.

oh hey, cherry-picking stats... there were three overtime games in the finals. 2 went to double OT.

Puck Head
06-22-2014, 08:16 PM
oh hey, cherry-picking stats... there were three overtime games in the finals. 2 went to double OT.

You said finals, thus why I corrected you.
It's not cherry picking....it's statistics.

Pete
06-22-2014, 08:23 PM
You said finals, thus why I corrected you.
It's not cherry picking....it's statistics.

you're right. It is in cherry picking. It's nitpicking. Point stands, he's not trusted. again, ice time, Zone start, quality of competition,

momentum
06-22-2014, 08:27 PM
I hope they can get it done and resign Stralman, he will be cheaper than Staal will be while providing much of the same services. Staal should be our major trade bait and used to improve our topline if possible.

josh
06-22-2014, 08:45 PM
you're right. It is in cherry picking. It's nitpicking. Point stands, he's not trusted. again, ice time, Zone start, quality of competition,

Oh come on. None of this is true.

Your hate for Klein is directly related to you infatuation with Del Zotto. And if you are going to comment on Kleins play, you need to be able to separate the two

NYR2711
06-22-2014, 09:00 PM
I hope they can get it done and resign Stralman, he will be cheaper than Staal will be while providing much of the same services. Staal should be our major trade bait and used to improve our topline if possible.

Staal and Stralman do not provide the same services. Staal is one of the best shut down defensemen in the league. His stick work is like no other defender on this team, the only one close enough to his play is Mac, but even the two of them are different.

Mentosman42
06-22-2014, 11:07 PM
Klein's lack of playing time can also be attributed to the fact he played less than 1/2 the season with the Rangers. It took the team 1/2 the season to adapt AV's play style and Klein only played with them for 30 games during the regular season.

Pete
06-22-2014, 11:44 PM
Your hate for Klein is directly related to you infatuation with Del Zotto. And if you are going to comment on Kleins play, you need to be able to separate the twoLet's address this first. Uh, bullshit. Give it a rest.

Now on to this.


Oh come on. None of this is true.Oh? Where are Stralman, Staal, G and McD compared to Klein and Moore?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20105550/Klein.png

3 finals games went to OT, Games 1, 2 and 5. In those games, he had 11:58, 17:25(2OT) and 20:24(2OT). In games 3 and 4 he played 10:07 and 10:53 respectively. In game 5, in the 1st and 2nd OT, Girardi was turning the puck over left and right. He logged 7:26 and 5:50. Stralman logged 5:18 and 4:56. Klein, who should have been fresh from his ~12:00 from periods 1-3...Logged 5:29 and then 3:39.

Oh, come on...It's right there in front of you, it doesn't matter if I like him or not, it's pretty clear he's not trusted. Players who are trusted don't get the least amount of ice time per game, against lesser opponents, in favorable conditions.

If you're going to comment on my comments, at least do a little research into what's "true".

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/jim2.gif

BlueJay
06-23-2014, 12:06 AM
everything discussed here is speculation. based on data, zone starts, ice time, quality of competition, it's clear he's not trusted.

He was also on trying to play D, when LA scored the cup winning goal. I will never forgive him.

Pete
06-23-2014, 12:17 AM
Klein's lack of playing time can also be attributed to the fact he played less than 1/2 the season with the Rangers. It took the team 1/2 the season to adapt AV's play style and Klein only played with them for 30 games during the regular season.

Which would indicate he's not trusted. Add twenty five playoff games to that... Where his ice time was down to around 11 per 60, from the 15 he was playing since the trade.

josh
06-23-2014, 08:22 AM
Let's address this first. Uh, bullshit. Give it a rest.

Now on to this.

Oh? Where are Stralman, Staal, G and McD compared to Klein and Moore?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20105550/Klein.png

3 finals games went to OT, Games 1, 2 and 5. In those games, he had 11:58, 17:25(2OT) and 20:24(2OT). In games 3 and 4 he played 10:07 and 10:53 respectively. In game 5, in the 1st and 2nd OT, Girardi was turning the puck over left and right. He logged 7:26 and 5:50. Stralman logged 5:18 and 4:56. Klein, who should have been fresh from his ~12:00 from periods 1-3...Logged 5:29 and then 3:39.

Oh, come on...It's right there in front of you, it doesn't matter if I like him or not, it's pretty clear he's not trusted. Players who are trusted don't get the least amount of ice time per game, against lesser opponents, in favorable conditions.

If you're going to comment on my comments, at least do a little research into what's "true".

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/jim2.gif

wow, anyone notice that Stralmans bubble is right on Staals... imagine that! I cant believe JOHN MOORE didn't get more icetime.
That pathetic Klein. Should have been logging 30 minutes with Diaz, too. Scrub.

AmericanJesus
06-23-2014, 08:25 AM
He was also on trying to play D, when LA scored the cup winning goal. I will never forgive him.

Eh, MZA went to the wrong man. If you want to not forgive someone for that goal, you'd have to start there.

Pete
06-23-2014, 08:27 AM
wow, anyone notice that Stralmans bubble is right on Staals... imagine that! I cant believe JOHN MOORE didn't get more icetime.
That pathetic Klein. Should have been logging 30 minutes with Diaz, too. Scrub.

Throwing a tantrum because you said something wasn't true and the facts and stats showed it was? Thought you were better than that.

AmericanJesus
06-23-2014, 08:33 AM
I'm sure there are a lot of factors as to why Klein's ice time was so low but end of the day, we can't afford to pay a third pair D man $2.9m per year in cap space and be successful. Some part of that equation has to change.

Pete
06-23-2014, 08:40 AM
I'm sure there are a lot of factors as to why Klein's ice time was so low but end of the day, we can't afford to pay a third pair D man $2.9m per year in cap space and be successful. Some part of that equation has to change.

And if he's getting $2.9 as a player, on a contract signed last year, can you really say Stralman isn't worth $4?

Staal played his best hockey since first concussion with Stralman because they have a level of trust and Staal doesn't feel like he has to cover for anyone else, IMO. He had expressed that he hoped Stralman was re-signed. Instead of messing with a good pairing, why not address what ISN'T working, the 3rd pair.

AmericanJesus
06-23-2014, 08:43 AM
And if he's getting $2.9 as a player, on a contract signed last year, can you really say Stralman isn't worth $4?

Staal played his best hockey since first concussion with Stralman because they have a level of trust and Staal doesn't feel like he has to cover for anyone else, IMO. He had expressed that he hoped Stralman was re-signed. Instead of messing with a good pairing, why not address what ISN'T working, the 3rd pair.

My first option is to re-sign Stralman up to around that number and trade Klein. I think Moore took a few good steps last year. I would give him a half season to see if he can keep getting a little better. He's still young. I would sign a depth option on the right like Diaz and then let him, McIlrath and Allen compete for the final spot.

To me Klein is a good 3/4 option on an ok defense. We want to be better than ok though.

Pete
06-23-2014, 08:53 AM
My first option is to re-sign Stralman up to around that number and trade Klein. I think Moore took a few good steps last year. I would give him a half season to see if he can keep getting a little better. He's still young. I would sign a depth option on the right like Diaz and then let him, McIlrath and Allen compete for the final spot.

To me Klein is a good 3/4 option on an ok defense. We want to be better than ok though.

Pretty much agree, although I think they need another alternative, maybe a camp invite. If the battle for #6 is between Allen and McIlrath...not much competition.

I really thought Klein would steady Moore, and for a stretch of games it looked like it might've, but the deeper they went, the worse they looked. You simply can't have the 3rd pair playing 10 minutes and the other 2 pair getting ridden that hard.

Phil in Absentia
06-23-2014, 09:24 AM
And if he's getting $2.9 as a player, on a contract signed last year, can you really say Stralman isn't worth $4?

Staal played his best hockey since first concussion with Stralman because they have a level of trust and Staal doesn't feel like he has to cover for anyone else, IMO. He had expressed that he hoped Stralman was re-signed. Instead of messing with a good pairing, why not address what ISN'T working, the 3rd pair.

They don't compare in this manner. Klein signed his contract as an RFA. Strålman will be going in as a UFA.

But the point about value by position does stand. I don't really like the idea of paying $3M to a third-pairing, protected minutes defenseman either. It's the same reason Del Zotto was traded, frankly.

Pete
06-23-2014, 09:33 AM
They don't compare in this manner. Klein signed his contract as an RFA. Strålman will be going in as a UFA.

But the point about value by position does stand. I don't really like the idea of paying $3M to a third-pairing, protected minutes defenseman either. It's the same reason Del Zotto was traded, frankly.

It does compare because they bought 4
UFA years. You put to much stock into the letter before FA sometimes. It doesn't always make a huge difference.

Take Stepan. He's likely to get the same $5 or so million in his next deal that he'd get for being a 55ish point player in UFA.

Phil in Absentia
06-23-2014, 09:35 AM
It does compare because they bought 4
UFA years. You put to much stock into the letter before FA sometimes. It doesn't always make a huge difference.

Take Stepan. He's likely to get the same $5 or so million in his next deal that he'd get for being a 55ish point player in UFA.

I doubt that. UFA is usually, on average, a difference of about $1M between what most people hope/think a players' value is and what they end up getting.

They did purchase UFA years, but those years were purchased out of restricted free agency, which limited Kleins' negotiations a bit more than had he been a pure UFA where you can really leverage a team against their will.

Pete
06-23-2014, 09:48 AM
I doubt that. UFA is usually, on average, a difference of about $1M between what most people hope/think a players' value is and what they end up getting.

They did purchase UFA years, but those years were purchased out of restricted free agency, which limited Kleins' negotiations a bit more than had he been a pure UFA where you can really leverage a team against their will.

You doubt what? That Stepan gets $5? I don't. I think he should get $4.25ish...And I'm usually under by a good amount, so that means $5. :rofl:

AmericanJesus
06-23-2014, 09:55 AM
Pretty much agree, although I think they need another alternative, maybe a camp invite. If the battle for #6 is between Allen and McIlrath...not much competition.

I really thought Klein would steady Moore, and for a stretch of games it looked like it might've, but the deeper they went, the worse they looked. You simply can't have the 3rd pair playing 10 minutes and the other 2 pair getting ridden that hard.

I said to sign a guy like Diaz as a veteran to compete with Allen and McIlrath for the 6th spot.

Pete
06-23-2014, 09:57 AM
I said to sign a guy like Diaz as a veteran to compete with Allen and McIlrath for the 6th spot.

I think the fact that they already said they're letting Falk walk means that Diaz is the 7th. I don't know how much that would change, even with Klein gone.

AmericanJesus
06-23-2014, 10:01 AM
You doubt what? That Stepan gets $5? I don't. I think he should get $4.25ish...And I'm usually under by a good amount, so that means $5. :rofl:

What he does this year will define what he makes. Too early to pencil that number in.

Buying UFA years is hard to compare to open market UFA cost. Really depends on the player and when you are comparing. Say Stepan hits 60 points th his year, his next deal gives him $4m until his earliest possible UFA age and he keeps hitting that number. He'll get paid very well as a 27 year old 60 point center on a long term deal. He'd get less if he sold 3 UFA years to the Rangers in his next contract but would be selling less ufa years as well. So very difficult to judge accurately.

AmericanJesus
06-23-2014, 10:02 AM
I think the fact that they already said they're letting Falk walk means that Diaz is the 7th. I don't know how much that would change, even with Klein gone.

Got you. So you'd want at least Diaz and a walk on or another viable 6/7 in the mix. I can agree with that.

Pete
06-23-2014, 10:04 AM
Got you. So you'd want at least Diaz and a walk on or another viable 6/7 in the mix. I can agree with that.

Yea. I don't think you can just have 2 rookies battle it out, especially when Allen is that far ahead of McIlrath. I guess you could try that, and if neither impress, go with Diaz, but Diaz with Moore as a pair scares me.

DiJock94
06-23-2014, 10:07 AM
Yea. I don't think you can just have 2 rookies battle it out, especially when Allen is that far ahead of McIlrath. I guess you could try that, and if neither impress, go with Diaz, but Diaz with Moore as a pair scares me.

I agree that's scary. Moore needs to be paired with a stay at home type

DiJock94
06-23-2014, 10:07 AM
I liked what I saw from Diaz too just thought he was a little too soft

Phil in Absentia
06-23-2014, 10:35 AM
You doubt what? That Stepan gets $5? I don't. I think he should get $4.25ish...And I'm usually under by a good amount, so that means $5. :rofl:

No, that the $5M he'd get from us would be the same $5M he'd get from another team. I think another club would pay more in UFA, because again, he has the market to his advantage. It's easy to drive the price of your services up in that manner by simply courting multiple teams. This is why I talk about how RFA's don't have the same advantage. Even when the team is purchasing UFA years. They pay to do so, clearly, but they don't pay the same premium teams do when a player reaches July 1st, when they can actually pit teams against one another in bidding wars to drive their price per year up.

Pete
06-23-2014, 10:42 AM
No, that the $5M he'd get from us would be the same $5M he'd get from another team. I think another club would pay more in UFA, because again, he has the market to his advantage. It's easy to drive the price of your services up in that manner by simply courting multiple teams. This is why I talk about how RFA's don't have the same advantage. Even when the team is purchasing UFA years. They pay to do so, clearly, but they don't pay the same premium teams do when a player reaches July 1st, when they can actually pit teams against one another in bidding wars to drive their price per year up.

You can't use the term RFA as a catch all for who should be paid what. Is the RFA going into his second contract, or his 3rd? Does he have arbitration rights or not? What deals are his comparables signing? In the UFA market, it's a free for all, but I have a hard time believing Stepan would get more than $5 mil from anyone as a UFA. The precedent has been set around the league at forward for basically $1million per point. Kessel, Getzlaf, Perry...With a little more of a premium put on goals. Maybe Stepan would get around $5.5. I'd be shocked if he got more, and since neither of us can prove it either way, it's sort of irrelevant to the rest of the thread.

Phil in Absentia
06-23-2014, 10:50 AM
You can't use the term RFA as a catch all for who should be paid what. Is the RFA going into his second contract, or his 3rd? Does he have arbitration rights or not? What deals are his comparables signing? In the UFA market, it's a free for all, but I have a hard time believing Stepan would get more than $5 mil from anyone as a UFA. The precedent has been set around the league at forward for basically $1million per point. Kessel, Getzlaf, Perry...With a little more of a premium put on goals. Maybe Stepan would get around $5.5. I'd be shocked if he got more, and since neither of us can prove it either way, it's sort of irrelevant to the rest of the thread.

I'm not. I'm using the term RFA to separate how that contract is being determined, and exactly what leverage rights that player has as an RFA or a UFA. Second, third, fourth contract matters there, as do arbitration rights, as do comparable deals.

In Klein versus Strålman, as we're discussing, I'm saying that the two contracts cannot be compared in a vacuum, as they don't exist in the same context. They weren't signed under the same conditions. Yes, both contracts include (well, will) UFA years, but Klein's deal was signed with one RFA year left, which means that his leverage in negotiating that deal was less than the leverage Strålman will have if he gets to July 1st, where he can use teams to bid against one another to drive his cost up — a right/tactic Klein never had, even if Klein had UFA years purchased. Those UFA years Klein had purchased added to his overall value, but the remaining RFA year subtracted from his ability to maximize return.

As to Stepan, I would think around $5.5M as a UFA as well. Similar to the position Bozak was in last year with the Leafs. He ultimately re-signed for $4.2M with the Leafs, but probably would have seen $5M or so had he gotten to July 1st and successfully negotiated with a new club. He left a little money on the table to stick with the Devil he knew.

Pete
06-23-2014, 10:54 AM
Point is, in a cap world, If Klein is getting $2.9, and he's the same age as Stralman, hard to say Stralman isn't worth $4, when discussing straight up value per dollar.

Phil in Absentia
06-23-2014, 11:00 AM
Point is, in a cap world, If Klein is getting $2.9, and he's the same age as Stralman, hard to say Stralman isn't worth $4, when discussing straight up value per dollar.

Sure.

More importantly, for their roles, I think it's easy to argue against the idea of paying $2.9M for a third-pairing, sheltered minutes defender when you have cheaper internal options who can likely give you exactly the same minutes/role.

Pete
06-23-2014, 11:03 AM
Sure.

More importantly, for their roles, I think it's easy to argue against the idea of paying $2.9M for a third-pairing, sheltered minutes defender when you have cheaper internal options who can likely give you exactly the same minutes/role.

That's the thing, for me. And it doesn't matter if you love Klein and I hate Klein or vice versa, AV seems to think there is a significant gap between Kelin and the guys above him.

Slobberknocker
06-23-2014, 11:05 AM
13:17

Didn't lead team in +/-.

Played sheltered minutes with favourable matchups and zone starts.

Doesn't matter what anyone thinks, it's clear AV doesn't trust him.

we were also down in the series 3-0 than 3-1. most coaches are going to over play there top guys in that situation. its not a matter of lack of trust. Its a matter that you lean more on your top guys cause you think they have a better probability of producing in those spots.

I don't remember seeing any egregious errors by Klein in the playoffs compared say to Girardi.

DiJock94
06-23-2014, 11:15 AM
That's the thing, for me. And it doesn't matter if you love Klein and I hate Klein or vice versa, AV seems to think there is a significant gap between Kelin and the guys above him.

I kinda think it's more the gap between Moore and staal then it is Klein and Stralman

Pete
06-23-2014, 11:20 AM
we were also down in the series 3-0 than 3-1. most coaches are going to over play there top guys in that situation. its not a matter of lack of trust. Its a matter that you lean more on your top guys cause you think they have a better probability of producing in those spots.

I don't remember seeing any egregious errors by Klein in the playoffs compared say to Girardi.Regardless of whatever word you want to use, the coach isn't playing the player, so why are you paying the player almost 3 million if you're going to sit him in certain spots? You can do this with a rookie and save yourself $2 million. It speaks volumes that Girardi was turning the puck over like it was a live grenade and he still saw 40 minutes of ice time in a game that Klein saw 20.


I kinda think it's more the gap between Moore and staal then it is Klein and StralmanMost coaches would then roll with 5 D, not 4. There's no reason to gas 4 guys because you don't trust 1.

Slobberknocker
06-23-2014, 11:38 AM
Girardi got the benefit of the doubt. Largely because he plays with Mcd who is a work horse. Guess AV though Girardi would pull his head out of his posterior at some point.

thecurse0101
06-23-2014, 11:39 AM
I hope he signs he, he is reliable and you rarely hear his name. He comes into games, does his job and does it well. he was gonna be the next jersey I buy if he stuck around

leetchy2
06-23-2014, 12:25 PM
I like Stralman, but my concern is if we do re-sign him then our power play is destined to suck again next year. Wouldn't we be better off signing a Dan Boyle type or another d-man who can actually quarterback the power play?

Can't trade Girardi with a no-movement clause, definitely don't want to trade Staal, and would rather not move Klein because he's got a good contract. Perhaps we upgrade John Moore in the offseason and have a left-handed power-play d-man (Brian Campbell would sure look good in a Ranger uniform but can we afford 7mm the next two years?).

All I know is that you can't have 5 of your 6 defensemen be inept at running the power-play, so something has to give.

ThirtyONE
06-23-2014, 01:00 PM
I like Stralman, but my concern is if we do re-sign him then our power play is destined to suck again next year. Wouldn't we be better off signing a Dan Boyle type or another d-man who can actually quarterback the power play?

Can't trade Girardi with a no-movement clause, definitely don't want to trade Staal, and would rather not move Klein because he's got a good contract. Perhaps we upgrade John Moore in the offseason and have a left-handed power-play d-man (Brian Campbell would sure look good in a Ranger uniform but can we afford 7mm the next two years?).

All I know is that you can't have 5 of your 6 defensemen be inept at running the power-play, so something has to give.

i agree but I think you replace JMoore, not Stralman. Moore hasn't shown anything worth mentioning in his year and a half here. The guy is the most replaceable Dman.

leetchy2
06-23-2014, 01:08 PM
i agree but I think you replace JMoore, not Stralman. Moore hasn't shown anything worth mentioning in his year and a half here. The guy is the most replaceable Dman.

I'd rather replace JMoore over Stralman as well, but here's the problem. If you sign Stralman then you don't have the cap space left to replace Moore with a d-man who can run the power play. How can we get around that?

josh
06-23-2014, 01:22 PM
Regardless of whatever word you want to use, the coach isn't playing the player, so why are you paying the player almost 3 million if you're going to sit him in certain spots? You can do this with a rookie and save yourself $2 million. It speaks volumes that Girardi was turning the puck over like it was a live grenade and he still saw 40 minutes of ice time in a game that Klein saw 20.

Most coaches would then roll with 5 D, not 4. There's no reason to gas 4 guys because you don't trust 1.

Moore was sat, not Klein. It just happened to be his defensive partner.
Staal was our best Dman through the first 2 series.
We've talked about the Staal effect for years. It should not be a shocker than anyone playing with Staal sees an increase in effectiveness, leading to an increase in playing time.

Pretty much the opposite has been true about Moore.

Do you think there will be a huge difference, next season, between Staal - Stralman and Staal - Klein? Because saving that extra 1+ per year could be the difference in keeping Staal the following offseason.

What about Moore - Stralman as our 2nd pair in 2 years... are you comfortable with that? I'm not.

Pete
06-23-2014, 01:37 PM
Moore was sat, not Klein. It just happened to be his defensive partner.
Staal was our best Dman through the first 2 series.
We've talked about the Staal effect for years. It should not be a shocker than anyone playing with Staal sees an increase in effectiveness, leading to an increase in playing time.

Pretty much the opposite has been true about Moore.

Do you think there will be a huge difference, next season, between Staal - Stralman and Staal - Klein? Because saving that extra 1+ per year could be the difference in keeping Staal the following offseason.

What about Moore - Stralman as our 2nd pair in 2 years... are you comfortable with that? I'm not.

If Moore was the only issue, most coaches will roll 5 D, and AV is a coach who knows the importance of depth, so I feel comfortable saying that if he felt Klein could handle it, he'd have playing him.

I don't know if Staal-Klein would be as effective as Staal-Stralman, but I do know that Staal has said he hopes the team keeps Stralman. That says something, to me.

What's that you always say, worry about 2 years in 2 years?

Puck Head
06-23-2014, 01:38 PM
Too much potential with Moore.
He's way young, and I think there are reasons the Rangers are so high on him.

Pete
06-23-2014, 02:14 PM
Too much potential with Moore.
He's way young, and I think there are reasons the Rangers are so high on him.

I don't see it.

I look at Kreider and I see potential. I look at Miller and I see some. I look at Moore, and I just see tools. Size, skating, shot, and not one clue how to use any of it.

AmericanJesus
06-23-2014, 02:32 PM
I don't see it.

I look at Kreider and I see potential. I look at Miller and I see some. I look at Moore, and I just see tools. Size, skating, shot, and not one clue how to use any of it.

I think a big issue for him is that he's 23, has played 3 seasons in the NHL, but only 173 regular season games which is just over 2 full seasons worth of games because of the lockout. He's also had 4 different coaches over that span, Arniel, Richards, Torts and now AV. An argument could be made that he was brought up too quickly to the NHL level as a 20 year old defenseman and then to have that kind of coaching turnover and to have to learn one new system after another, it's not surprising that he would struggle. Assuming AV will be here for a while, I'll be interested to see what he can do to fix some of the issues we see.

Pete
06-23-2014, 02:37 PM
I think a big issue for him is that he's 23, has played 3 seasons in the NHL, but only 173 regular season games which is just over 2 full seasons worth of games because of the lockout. He's also had 4 different coaches over that span, Arniel, Richards, Torts and now AV. An argument could be made that he was brought up too quickly to the NHL level as a 20 year old defenseman and then to have that kind of coaching turnover and to have to learn one new system after another, it's not surprising that he would struggle. Assuming AV will be here for a while, I'll be interested to see what he can do to fix some of the issues we see.

I get where you're going, and am inclined to agree on his career path, but with this word "potential", you usually see a glimpses of another level the player can get to. I just don't see those glimpses with Moore, to this point. I just see a lot of turnovers and slap shots. Sometimes they go in.

AmericanJesus
06-23-2014, 02:46 PM
I get where you're going, and am inclined to agree on his career path, but with this word "potential", you usually see a glimpses of another level the player can get to. I just don't see those glimpses with Moore, to this point. I just see a lot of turnovers and slap shots. Sometimes they go in.

Yeah, I get you. The times where you think, "wow, that was a heck of a play" with him are almost non-existent. Maybe 4-5 times per season, where a guy like McDonagh can have 4-5 in a game. I just look at the tools he has to work with and think that they are what add up to potential. He's got wheels and a shot. Reasonable strength. He does make some head scratching decisions at times. Those are what worry me most. I can take out of position given his career path, where he's thinking too much and not reacting, but I've seen him take an outside path defending a guy on the rush, basically taking away the boards and conceding the middle of the ice. That's something different entirely than just system confusion.

josh
06-23-2014, 03:21 PM
Has all the tools... except a brain.

momentum
06-23-2014, 03:57 PM
Staal and Stralman do not provide the same services. Staal is one of the best shut down defensemen in the league. His stick work is like no other defender on this team, the only one close enough to his play is Mac, but even the two of them are different.

overall Staal has stagnated or declined in his ability and Stralman has skyrocketed in comparison to him. At this point their overall ability/impact on a game as defensemen is IMO very equal, but Staal still has the name recognition and some ppl (like yourself) think of Staal as a star who's "one of the best in the league". This makes him much more valuable as trade bait because he will bring back much more than Stralman even though we're not giving up much by getting rid of Staal instead of Stralman and Stralman will make much less than Staal when he gets resigned.
Call it blasphemy if you want but it's the truth.
Would be awesome to be able to keep both but Stralman is the better bang for the buck so he's the keeper IMO and you have to give up something to get something.

Pete
06-23-2014, 03:59 PM
Staal is a left D and Stralman a right D. There's really no reason to debate who you'd rather keep, you need them both.

Steven.
06-23-2014, 04:03 PM
Losing Stralman could be potentially disastrous. I'd lock him up long term, and then assess the Staal situation. I'd like to keep Staal, but with his contract being up next year and Skjei showing so much promise on the left side, moving Staal for some cheap size up front could be productive. He's going to want $5.5M-$6M likely. Hopefully the cap continues to rise and this will be less of an issue, but we do have Stepan and Hagelin up for contract next year as well, and both players could get decent raises, particularly Stepan (if he has a 65-70pt season, he could get $6M).

I'm perfectly content with signing Stralman, keeping Staal, and slotting in Miller for Richards to start the season, though.

ThirtyONE
06-23-2014, 04:27 PM
Losing Stralman could be potentially disastrous. I'd lock him up long term, and then assess the Staal situation. I'd like to keep Staal, but with his contract being up next year and Skjei showing so much promise on the left side, moving Staal for some cheap size up front could be productive. He's going to want $5.5M-$6M likely. Hopefully the cap continues to rise and this will be less of an issue, but we do have Stepan and Hagelin up for contract next year as well, and both players could get decent raises, particularly Stepan (if he has a 65-70pt season, he could get $6M).

I'm perfectly content with signing Stralman, keeping Staal, and slotting in Miller for Richards to start the season, though.

I haven't heard anything about Skjei. Is he a potential filler in the coming years?

Steven.
06-23-2014, 04:32 PM
I haven't heard anything about Skjei. Is he a potential filler in the coming years?

I've read a lot about him myself, and it's been nothing but positivity and excitement from the people who have been seeing him play regularly. He's got a great frame, great skater, very steady, and his offense really came through this year. Have heard his skillset is similar to McDonagh's, but he's bigger.

ThirtyONE
06-23-2014, 04:35 PM
I've read a lot about him myself, and it's been nothing but positivity and excitement from the people who have been seeing him play regularly. He's got a great frame, great skater, very steady, and his offense really came through this year. Have heard his skillset is similar to McDonagh's, but he's bigger.

Interesting. He's maybe the quietest prospect we have then. I hope he can join this lineup in the next few seasons.

Pete
06-23-2014, 04:39 PM
I haven't heard anything about Skjei. Is he a potential filler in the coming years?

He took a big step forward this year, but I'd think he's still 2 years away, at minimum.

josh
06-23-2014, 04:47 PM
If Moore was the only issue, most coaches will roll 5 D, and AV is a coach who knows the importance of depth, so I feel comfortable saying that if he felt Klein could handle it, he'd have playing him.

I don't know if Staal-Klein would be as effective as Staal-Stralman, but I do know that Staal has said he hopes the team keeps Stralman. That says something, to me.

What's that you always say, worry about 2 years in 2 years?
not cool.


http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3509579/Damn-It.gif

Puck Head
06-23-2014, 04:49 PM
He took a big step forward this year, but I'd think he's still 2 years away, at minimum.

I think I'd agree here.

Pete
06-23-2014, 04:51 PM
I think I'd agree here.

One more year of college, 1 AHL season, then competes for a spot?

Puck Head
06-23-2014, 04:54 PM
One more year of college, 1 AHL season, then competes for a spot?

Exactly.

Steven.
06-23-2014, 04:55 PM
One more year of college, 1 AHL season, then competes for a spot?

Could see him leaving college early. Not sure I'd want him to do that.

Puck Head
06-23-2014, 04:56 PM
He has two years of NCAA under his belt.
I would imagine one more year, and then off to sign a contract.

Exact time frame as McDonagh did things. That puts him as a 21 or 22 year old defenseman in the NHL.

TwoMinutesForNothing
06-23-2014, 04:59 PM
He is still undecided about whether or not he's returning to school this season, a lot of his teammates have already stated they are going back while he still hasn't committed. If he goes pro then he should be up next season. If not then I would say he goes pro after this season and then gets a midseason call-up the next.

Pete
06-23-2014, 05:04 PM
He has two years of NCAA under his belt.
I would imagine one more year, and then off to sign a contract.

Exact time frame as McDonagh did things. That puts him as a 21 or 22 year old defenseman in the NHL.

This probably makes the most sense, for him. He took huge steps this year, see if he can dominate next year, if he can...Go pro and see what happens in the AHL. Maybe it's 82 AHL games, maybe it's 42.

NYR2711
06-23-2014, 08:48 PM
This probably makes the most sense, for him. He took huge steps this year, see if he can dominate next year, if he can...Go pro and see what happens in the AHL. Maybe it's 82 AHL games, maybe it's 42.

This, let the kid grow, don't rush him like they did MD and ruin him.

NYR2711
06-23-2014, 08:54 PM
overall Staal has stagnated or declined in his ability and Stralman has skyrocketed in comparison to him. At this point their overall ability/impact on a game as defensemen is IMO very equal, but Staal still has the name recognition and some ppl (like yourself) think of Staal as a star who's "one of the best in the league". This makes him much more valuable as trade bait because he will bring back much more than Stralman even though we're not giving up much by getting rid of Staal instead of Stralman and Stralman will make much less than Staal when he gets resigned.
Call it blasphemy if you want but it's the truth.
Would be awesome to be able to keep both but Stralman is the better bang for the buck so he's the keeper IMO and you have to give up something to get something.

He was injured for pretty much two seasons, and by mid season thus year, Staal was almost back to himself. He was our best overall defensemen in the first two rounds thus year, and kept it up for the rest of the playoffs. I would rather pay and keep him here rather than Stralman. You know what your getting in Staal. Stralman could turn out to be like Girardi, a product of his partner, because when Stralman has been away from Staal, he wasn't nearly as good IMO. It comes down to cap space, and I would rather use it on Staal, who we know what he brings with any partner he has played with, over Stralman, who we don't know what he would look like with someone new.

Mike
06-23-2014, 08:57 PM
This, let the kid grow, don't rush him like they did MD and ruin him.

I'm not a believer in this "ruining" stuff. That gets thrown around way too much. Even if the player struggles at certain levels, or points, if they have it in them they'll succeed at some point.

ThirtyONE
06-23-2014, 09:01 PM
overall Staal has stagnated or declined in his ability and Stralman has skyrocketed in comparison to him. At this point their overall ability/impact on a game as defensemen is IMO very equal, but Staal still has the name recognition and some ppl (like yourself) think of Staal as a star who's "one of the best in the league". This makes him much more valuable as trade bait because he will bring back much more than Stralman even though we're not giving up much by getting rid of Staal instead of Stralman and Stralman will make much less than Staal when he gets resigned.
Call it blasphemy if you want but it's the truth.
Would be awesome to be able to keep both but Stralman is the better bang for the buck so he's the keeper IMO and you have to give up something to get something.

Don't agree. Cerny mentioned Staal being the only other candidate for captain if it's not McD. He's a leader in the room and on the ice, I think Stralman had a good year but I think he benefited from playing with someone as talented as Staal. Don't forget, Staal had two MAJOR injuries in the last two seasons so to say he fell off is a bit unfair. IMO he was one of our best Dmen down the stretch and certainly in the playoffs. If I'm going to pay someone it's Staal.

Pete
06-23-2014, 09:23 PM
I'm not a believer in this "ruining" stuff. That gets thrown around way too much. Even if the player struggles at certain levels, or points, if they have it in them they'll succeed at some point.

Yea, but maybe not in the NHL. Organizations ruin players all the time.

Cash or Czech?
06-23-2014, 11:13 PM
Yea, but maybe not in the NHL. Organizations ruin players all the time.

'Lumbus for starters

Mike
06-23-2014, 11:25 PM
Yea, but maybe not in the NHL. Organizations ruin players all the time.

They may be uncomfortable in their current situation, but they're not beyond repair. The word "ruin" isn't a good term, imo. That's all I mean.

James Lionel Price
06-24-2014, 12:53 AM
Hopefully they can retain Stralman and resign Staal. Stralman plays a lot and has become a very important player for us. He's a hard hitter and a reliable guy. The kids they have coming on D are still far away from making it up (like Skej). Really almost every defenseman they have is a very important player, and you'd much rather lose forwards than defensemen.

NYR2711
06-24-2014, 10:20 AM
They may be uncomfortable in their current situation, but they're not beyond repair. The word "ruin" isn't a good term, imo. That's all I mean.

Look at Del Zotto, the guy was rushed in, and then after a decent first year, the next two years was made a scape goat at such a young age. He was up and down, his confidence was shot, he shouldn't be the player he is right now, he should be better, but he was never given that vote of confidence or allowed to grow into the league. If your gonna grab a guy right our of college or juniors, especially at a young age, you need to let the guy make mistakes and not constantly blame him, move him in and out of the lineup or up and down between the majors and minors, you have to put in the time to teach a kid.

Pete
06-24-2014, 10:30 AM
Look at Del Zotto, the guy was rushed in, and then after a decent first year, the next two years was made a scape goat at such a young age. He was up and down, his confidence was shot, he shouldn't be the player he is right now, he should be better, but he was never given that vote of confidence or allowed to grow into the league. If your gonna grab a guy right our of college or juniors, especially at a young age, you need to let the guy make mistakes and not constantly blame him, move him in and out of the lineup or up and down between the majors and minors, you have to put in the time to teach a kid.

I'm obviously the first person to defend DZ, but by the time AV came in and made sure DZ was traded, he was already a 5th year pro, with 3 out of his previous 4 years being pretty solid, regardless of what people who were sour on him said.

By the time he was traded, it was pretty much his own doing. They had a choice between JMoore and Del Zotto as their 6th D, and they liked Moore's tools better (although I'd argue DZ was the better trade chip because frankly, right now, Moore just isn't that good).

Management and Torts really worked with DZ, even though he needed discipline at times. There were points where he was a legit to 4 defender here, but something happened to him, maybe it was off the ice, maybe it was just that he and AV didn't get along, but whatever it was, he just wasn't playing well enough to stay. It's hard to say the Rangers ruined him.

That being said, and this is for another thread, but the Rangers have been known to ruin some prospects, like Jamie Lundmark...And they're well on their way with JT Miller.

NYR2711
06-24-2014, 10:41 AM
I'm obviously the first person to defend DZ, but by the time AV came in and made sure DZ was traded, he was already a 5th year pro, with 3 out of his previous 4 years being pretty solid, regardless of what people who were sour on him said.

By the time he was traded, it was pretty much his own doing. They had a choice between JMoore and Del Zotto as their 6th D, and they liked Moore's tools better (although I'd argue DZ was the better trade chip because frankly, right now, Moore just isn't that good).

Management and Torts really worked with DZ, even though he needed discipline at times. There were points where he was a legit to 4 defender here, but something happened to him, maybe it was off the ice, maybe it was just that he and AV didn't get along, but whatever it was, he just wasn't playing well enough to stay. It's hard to say the Rangers ruined him.

That being said, and this is for another thread, but the Rangers have been known to ruin some prospects, like Jamie Lundmark...And they're well on their way with JT Miller.

I get what your saying about DZ. I also agree with you on Lundmark, and even Malhotra as well.

momentum
06-24-2014, 08:36 PM
I'm obviously the first person to defend DZ, but by the time AV came in and made sure DZ was traded, he was already a 5th year pro, with 3 out of his previous 4 years being pretty solid, regardless of what people who were sour on him said.

By the time he was traded, it was pretty much his own doing. They had a choice between JMoore and Del Zotto as their 6th D, and they liked Moore's tools better (although I'd argue DZ was the better trade chip because frankly, right now, Moore just isn't that good).

Management and Torts really worked with DZ, even though he needed discipline at times. There were points where he was a legit to 4 defender here, but something happened to him, maybe it was off the ice, maybe it was just that he and AV didn't get along, but whatever it was, he just wasn't playing well enough to stay. It's hard to say the Rangers ruined him.

That being said, and this is for another thread, but the Rangers have been known to ruin some prospects, like Jamie Lundmark...And they're well on their way with JT Miller.

Great assessment of DZ IMO, agree 100%

momentum
06-24-2014, 08:38 PM
He was injured for pretty much two seasons, and by mid season thus year, Staal was almost back to himself. He was our best overall defensemen in the first two rounds thus year, and kept it up for the rest of the playoffs. I would rather pay and keep him here rather than Stralman. You know what your getting in Staal. Stralman could turn out to be like Girardi, a product of his partner, because when Stralman has been away from Staal, he wasn't nearly as good IMO. It comes down to cap space, and I would rather use it on Staal, who we know what he brings with any partner he has played with, over Stralman, who we don't know what he would look like with someone new.

Staal has been very lucky to have Stralman as his partner and vice versa, I'd say they help EACH other on the ice rather than one being the product of the other. I think Staal would be the first one to admit that.

Pete
06-24-2014, 09:29 PM
Staal has been very lucky to have Stralman as his partner and vice versa, I'd say they help EACH other on the ice rather than one being the product of the other. I think Staal would be the first one to admit that.

He has admitted it.

Also, Staal turned his game around after being paired with Stralman. He started poorly with Del Zotto.

AmericanJesus
06-25-2014, 07:25 PM
:tweet: Renaud - Talks between Rangers and Anton Stralman are not going as expected. We'll see if it's gona change in the next few days. #tvasports

Pete
06-25-2014, 08:08 PM
:tweet: Renaud - Talks between Rangers and Anton Stralman are not going as expected. We'll see if it's gona change in the next few days. #tvasports

Guess that would depend on who expected what?

Phil in Absentia
06-25-2014, 09:04 PM
:tweet: Renaud - Talks between Rangers and Anton Stralman are not going as expected. We'll see if it's gona change in the next few days. #tvasports

He's a goner, IMO. Same with Brian Boyle.

AmericanJesus
06-25-2014, 09:04 PM
Guess that would depend on who expected what?

I doubt he would have tweeted that because Stralman suddenly decided he wanted a one year deal at league minimum. It has to mean that the expectation was they would get a deal done but the two sides are further apart than anticipated or Stralman changed his mind and decided to see what he could get on the open market.

ThirtyONE
06-25-2014, 10:54 PM
Honestly, I feel like we have more capable Dmen in the system than forwards so if Stralman decides to takes his talents to south beach, I think we'll be okay with Klein moving up to the top 4. We can save that money and use it to help resign DMoore and others.

Phil in Absentia
06-25-2014, 11:04 PM
Something I think we're not accounting for here is also that Staal has one more year left before he is up for a new contract as well, so much as I like Strålman, I'm not so sure it's all that wise to go balls-to-the-wall in re-signing him simply because he has chemistry with Staal. We have no idea how much longer he'll be a Ranger as it is, so I can understand if the Rangers have sort of a cap on what they feel Strålman's value to them is, versus his value to the market. Or, more to the point, it wouldn't shock me to hear that the Rangers' value of Strålman is quite a ways from what Strålman could get if he hits July 1st.

MacTruck
06-25-2014, 11:52 PM
This is a tough call. I'd probably go as high as 4.3 on Stralman myself. I do think he will ultimately end up with a better value contract than Staal who should pull in 5.5-6. If Kevin Klein was on the left side rather than the right, I don't think there would be a debate in our front office. It would be a downgrade, but Klein is a reasonable 4th defender. Love Staal, but I don't think we can continue to pay another D-man big money. We need to decide between Stralman and Staal now.

I really liked what I saw out of Conor Allen in his 3 games this year. I'm hoping he finds the ice more this season.

I have this vision of Skjei graduating early like Kreider and turning into McDonagh 2.0.

15-16 D-men

McDonagh-Girardi
Skjei-Stralman
Allen-Klein

Phil in Absentia
06-26-2014, 10:19 AM
The New York Rangers reportedly set aside $4 million to retain free agent Anton Stralman, but the defenseman appears dissatisfied with the club's allotment.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/527387

--

This implies he's turned down $4M per.

CCCP
06-26-2014, 10:22 AM
Bye Anton

Morphinity
06-26-2014, 10:23 AM
Is the author reading the tea leaves or does he have a source? It seems to be the former, honestly.

Dunny
06-26-2014, 10:38 AM
They aren't really hard tea leaves to read.

Phil in Absentia
06-26-2014, 10:41 AM
Is the author reading the tea leaves or does he have a source? It seems to be the former, honestly.

I have no idea, but between this, the report from Brooks this morning, and the tea leaves over the last few days, it sure seems like he's on his way out.

I mean, the implications were there early, from the onset, at the exit interviews.

Pete
06-26-2014, 10:55 AM
http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/527387

--

This implies he's turned down $4M per.

Per how many years, is the question.

Morphinity
06-26-2014, 11:03 AM
I have no idea, but between this, the report from Brooks this morning, and the tea leaves over the last few days, it sure seems like he's on his way out.

I mean, the implications were there early, from the onset, at the exit interviews.

I guess. But the only true source we have is that negotiations aren't going "as planned", which, as Pete mentioned, could mean anything depending on who was planning what.

The author of that article claims the Rangers offered $4M per, and I'm wondering if that's a source or if he's speculating. I've never heard of the guy, so seeing him throw a number out like that has me wondering. That's all.

Myusername
06-26-2014, 11:19 AM
I think he's worth about 4.5-5 million on the open market, so would not be surprised if that were true. I think we have enough depth to let him go and not be in too much pain though. Plus, I'd like someone who brings a little bit more offense to the table

NYR2711
06-26-2014, 01:00 PM
$4M is tops for me, he doesn't bring anything that spectacular to the team that can't be replicated by someone else. If he used his shot and played how he played, I would maybe go $4.5M per, but he isn't standing out as a must hold onto to me.

MacTruck
06-27-2014, 03:12 AM
I'd be okay paying Anton closer to 4.5 if we let Moore go to free up a little cap space. I figure Moore will probably cost 1.5-2 as opposed to somebody like Allen playing the 6th spot. I could see us playing a "kid" 10-12 minutes a night while letting the top two pairs play 20-25 a night with Klein at 15-18.

Even better, we could sign Moore tomorrow and then flip him for a first round pick in the draft! I like the kid but he doesn't look like top 4 material to me.

AmericanJesus
06-27-2014, 06:54 AM
I'd be okay paying Anton closer to 4.5 if we let Moore go to free up a little cap space. I figure Moore will probably cost 1.5-2 as opposed to somebody like Allen playing the 6th spot. I could see us playing a "kid" 10-12 minutes a night while letting the top two pairs play 20-25 a night with Klein at 15-18.

Even better, we could sign Moore tomorrow and then flip him for a first round pick in the draft! I like the kid but he doesn't look like top 4 material to me.

Moore would only get you a 2nd round pick I would think. Allen is a right D not a left. Defenders often struggle when they try to flip sides, more so young ones. The move if we bring back Stralman, regardless of price, is to flip Klein. It's becoming obvious that the UFA market for D is really thin. A team would take a chance on Klein as a top 4 defender I would think.

Add a decent prospect with him and you might get a mid round 1st. Increase it a lot and maybe get a top ten pick.

momentum
06-27-2014, 08:42 AM
as much as I like stralman I wouldn't be interested in paying much more than 4 mil per, he's just solid and not spectacular in any sense so paying up towards 5 mil for someone like him is just too much imo.
Personally I bet it's term that's the problem, the rangers prob offered him 3-4 years or something and he wants 5 or more years.

NYR2711
06-27-2014, 04:07 PM
as much as I like stralman I wouldn't be interested in paying much more than 4 mil per, he's just solid and not spectacular in any sense so paying up towards 5 mil for someone like him is just too much imo.
Personally I bet it's term that's the problem, the rangers prob offered him 3-4 years or something and he wants 5 or more years.

I would think that he would want a NTC clause as well, which he doesn't really deserve IMO.

momentum
06-27-2014, 05:07 PM
I would think that he would want a NTC clause as well, which he doesn't really deserve IMO.

Everyone wants one these days, used to be only franchise players who got or even asked for that stuff.

Pete
06-27-2014, 06:06 PM
I love how the thread title includes "Let Falk Walk" and no one cares lol.

TwoMinutesForNothing
06-28-2014, 01:48 AM
Regarding the Skjei conversation that was going on a couple pages back. Gordie Clark had this to say...

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/rangerrants/comments/gordie_clark_on_nhl_draft_rangers_prospects/


“He went in as a freshman able to play,” Clark said of Skjei’s one-goal, two-assists in 36 games effort in his first collegiate season. “He had a strong year as a sophomore and he made the world junior team. That’s the experience we want for them. He went to the Frozen Four. That mirrors (Chris) Kreider) and (Ryan) McDonagh and (Derek) Stepan. They don’t have a long season so the more they play, it shows what they can do when they go further in the season.

“Brady, he’s ready to turn pro but that decision is up to them, the family and his agent,” Clark added.

This was my assessment from watching him this past season as well.

Pete
06-28-2014, 07:10 AM
I feel like the younger he turns pro, the more AHL time he'll need. We heard this same story with McDonagh and he still needed half a year in the AHL.

Drew a Penalty
06-28-2014, 07:17 AM
Skjei could still use 2-3 more years of development whether that be in the AHL or back on Minnesota. I'd rather see him back in Minnesota to be honest. Let him get one more season there and then have him spend a year or two in Hartford. He's very good as is, but he's not good enough to really see some time. The Rangers also have plenty of defenseman in Hartford right now. Let him come in with Graves when there aren't spots filled by guys like Allen, McIlrath, Bodie, Zamorsky, Hughes and whatever AHL veterans are guaranteed to be on that team. Soon enough those guys won't be on the team, but for now while they're there and it's more beneficial for Skjei to be on the top pairing in Minnesota than to be trying to beat out other guys for time in Hartford.

torontonyr
06-28-2014, 07:35 AM
In order to move forward this club needs to cut excess salary, period.

Whether that be Boyle & Moore, or Anton Stralman. We're going to have to gamble on some kids, likely Fast, Miller, Haggerty & McIlrath at some point - that point (IMO) is now. There's no way we can improve in the important areas without doing so.

TwoMinutesForNothing
06-28-2014, 09:57 AM
Yes, he could develop more, because every young player could improve, but based on what I've seen of him I honestly think that if he played an NHL game tomorrow he would still be more effective and impressive than John Moore.

Don't know if he's definitely going to turn pro, but it's odd that all of his NCAA teammates have already announced their intentions and he still hasn't.

G1000
07-01-2014, 11:40 AM
:tweet: @Real_ESPNLeBrun Stralman agent Marc Levine: ``Anton will head to FA market if we do not hear from Rangers within next 10 minutes.''

Some ultimatum. 10 minutes to sign!

Phil in Absentia
07-01-2014, 11:41 AM
He's a goner. Time to move on.

NYR2711
07-01-2014, 11:52 AM
Im actually pretty fine with losing him.

Phil in Absentia
07-01-2014, 12:08 PM
:tweet: @PLeonardNYDN: Stralman will not be returning to Rangers, per source. Rangers are out

--

Anton Strålman — done as a Ranger.

josh
07-01-2014, 12:09 PM
phew! What a relief.


Good luck, guy!

G1000
07-01-2014, 12:12 PM
Ah, that sucks.

Sad to see him go, but I know he's going to get paid way more than we can afford. Here's to hoping he does well.

Pete
07-01-2014, 12:12 PM
It's gonna be funny watching people complain relentlessly about his replacement.

josh
07-01-2014, 12:13 PM
It's gonna be funny watching people complain relentlessly about his replacement.

More of a money issue, to me. People complained about Stralman his entire tenure... until a month ago.

Besides, you already complain about Klein enough.

Pete
07-01-2014, 12:15 PM
More of a money issue, to me. People complained about Stralman his entire tenure... until a month ago.

Besides, you already complain about Klein enough.

Because he's not good, the more he plays the more there'll be to complain about. ;)

josh
07-01-2014, 12:20 PM
Because he's not good, the more he plays the more there'll be to complain about. ;)

Want to do a Klein vs Stralman +/- bet for next season?

Pete
07-01-2014, 12:21 PM
Want to do a Klein vs Stralman +/- bet for next season?

Talk about pointless...

Valriera
07-01-2014, 01:30 PM
Sad to see this guy go - but it's a smart money move from the Rangers. There are worse replacements than Boyle as well.