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MacTruck
05-11-2014, 10:16 PM
It's great having him back for the playoffs. The Rangers have never had a player with his size, speed and intensity. I had forgotten about his ability to completely change the pace of a game.

Morphinity
05-11-2014, 10:17 PM
Dude makes a difference. This team is simply better with him in the lineup. His game is so perfect for playoff hockey.

!br-avery!
05-11-2014, 10:17 PM
Beast

Phil in Absentia
05-11-2014, 10:18 PM
He just adds such a dynamic presence on that line that benefits every one he plays with, especially Nash and Stepan. Stepan, more than anyone, excels with him because of the physical edge he brings to every shift, and the attention he draws by default based on his speed. Players can't cheat with him, because he's past them in a moment's notice if he spots it.

Rangers
05-11-2014, 10:19 PM
There is a reason why he scored 5 goals in his first playoffs appearance. Let's not forget, he did not play one game during regular season that year.
He can be even better difference maker!

Steven.
05-11-2014, 10:19 PM
Maybe Nash could take some lessons from him on how to properly use your frame.

Phil in Absentia
05-11-2014, 10:22 PM
There is a reason why he scored 5 goals in his first playoffs appearance. Let's not forget, he did not play one game during regular season that year.
He can be even better difference maker!

Yeah, he's totally built for Playoff hockey. Big, hard and fast with just enough skill to make a difference.


Maybe Nash could take some lessons from him on how to properly use your frame.

Kinda funny when you think back to when everyone was posting about how Nash would be a great role model for Kreider, yet the reverse has actually proven true. :rofl:

High and Wide
05-11-2014, 10:22 PM
Definitely glad to have him back. He adds such great energy to this roster, but he's been disciplined as well. Wasn't rusty for too long.

momentum
05-11-2014, 10:22 PM
So nice to have a player like this on the Rangers.

McDougalfaschnitzer
05-11-2014, 10:23 PM
Charles nooooooooo

Steven.
05-11-2014, 10:26 PM
Kinda funny when you think back to when everyone was posting about how Nash would be a great role model for Kreider, yet the reverse has actually proven true. :rofl:

I was thinking the same thing earlier in the game. Always need to remember that hockey is different here!

Pete
05-11-2014, 10:26 PM
He was just angry at life tonight. I love it.

Phil in Absentia
05-11-2014, 10:30 PM
Charles nooooooooo

:rofl:

Get off me, bitch!

Blue Heaven
05-11-2014, 10:37 PM
Played with a chip on his shoulder tonight.

Travis Bickle
05-11-2014, 10:45 PM
Don't mess with the "Ghost Kreider".

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4334542/BSBH/GhostKreider.jpg

dome
05-11-2014, 10:46 PM
Another gamer I love.

He makes everyone around him better.

He changes the way opposing defenders play.

He creates sooooo much space for his teammates.

This is why he should be put with MSL right now.

James Lionel Price
05-11-2014, 10:49 PM
Beast

So true. He'll probably generate a goal for Nash soon, LOL.

NYRangers723
05-11-2014, 10:57 PM
Another great game. he was pissed tonight. he was robbed of a goal by the refs too

Morphinity
05-11-2014, 10:57 PM
Don't mess with Kredier

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnXYzf1CYAA4cZD.jpg

Respecttheblue
05-11-2014, 11:05 PM
It's great having him back for the playoffs. The Rangers have never had a player with his size, speed and intensity. I had forgotten about his ability to completely change the pace of a game.

Yes, when he plays his full on game, he can make a huge impact.

It's when he fails to bring the intensity that he turns invisible. Gladly, though, the playoffs seem to bring out the beast in him.

dome
05-11-2014, 11:06 PM
Don't mess with Kredier

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnXYzf1CYAA4cZD.jpg

oh my...

that's golden..

Respecttheblue
05-11-2014, 11:07 PM
Another gamer I love.

He makes everyone around him better.

He changes the way opposing defenders play.

He creates sooooo much space for his teammates.

This is why he should be put with MSL right now.

Agree with the top 4 statements a 100% when he's on his game, he might be capable of having more impact than any single player other than Hank.

I don't mind experimenting with the fifth, but i hope he can help make Nash and Steps come alive. If we can get those two dudes firing on all four, I mean six, eight? cylinders, then watch out world.

TwoMinutesForNothing
05-11-2014, 11:39 PM
Was expecting an X-Men photoshop.

Lt. Dan
05-12-2014, 12:07 AM
I can't get over how strong the kid is. Some opposing players get launched when he hits them and it's fucking awesome. Love this kids game and anger that he's showing. A power forward with an edge is very much needed on this team.

Vodka Drunkenski
05-12-2014, 12:08 AM
Just needs to work on hands

dome
05-12-2014, 12:21 AM
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-because-beast-mode-is-on.png

dome
05-12-2014, 12:21 AM
Just needs to work on hands

I fully expect him to with MSL this off-season.

Puck Head
05-12-2014, 01:30 AM
I fully expect him to with MSL this off-season.

Why would you expect that?

Lt. Dan
05-12-2014, 01:32 AM
Just needs to work on hands

Hell yes.

Gunnar Stahl
05-12-2014, 08:01 AM
Very good when he is on, but does have a tendency to pull a Dubinsky and disappear for 10 games after a really great game. He's still very young though with amazing potential though.

Johnnydollaz18
05-12-2014, 12:31 PM
His physical play, his speed, his strength, he just opens up the ice for Nash and Stepan and creates more chances. He's the key piece to that line and the main reason they struggled, when he wasn't in the lineup.

Puck Head
05-12-2014, 12:39 PM
Still a process.
We have started to see a bit if edge to his game, that needs to continue. Would love to see him close to leading this team in PMS someday.

Excellent coming back defensively to deal with opposing teams rush.

Well below average though on positioning in our zone. Also needs to get a little softer hands in the tight areas.

Pete
05-12-2014, 12:46 PM
Still a process.
We have started to see a bit if edge to his game, that needs to continue. Would love to see him close to leading this team in PMS someday.

Excellent coming back defensively to deal with opposing teams rush.

Well below average though on positioning in our zone. Also needs to get a little softer hands in the tight areas.

:palm:

Puck Head
05-12-2014, 12:50 PM
:palm:

Ok
That one actually make me chuckle.
Something about the importance of a , ' or . Can change the complete context of a message

Phil in Absentia
05-12-2014, 12:52 PM
...does that mean you're holding hands? :rofl:

I get what you are saying about leading the team in PIMS though. The context of them matters, but if we're talking a slew of roughing, elbowing, charging-type penalties, that's a clear indication he's fully engaged and a factor in every game.

Pete
05-12-2014, 12:52 PM
I'm palming your palm if that's possible

I believe that's referred to as a "handshake".

Puck Head
05-12-2014, 12:53 PM
...does that mean you're holding hands? :rofl: I get what you are saying about leading the team in PIMS though. The context of them matters, but if we're talking a slew of roughing, elbowing, charging-type penalties, that's a clear indication he's fully engaged and a factor in every game.

Yes!
Those type of penalties (see what I did there).
Zero attention on Nash or Stepan because Kreider becomes Lucic 2.0

Phil in Absentia
05-12-2014, 12:53 PM
http://www.theirishworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Two-Men-Holding-Hands-812874.jpg

dome
05-12-2014, 01:24 PM
Why would you expect that?

Gut feeling..

MSL needs his "Stamkos" before we sign him in 2 years.

CreaseCrusader91
05-12-2014, 01:30 PM
Gut feeling..

MSL needs his "Stamkos" before we sign him in 2 years.

MSL was an elite player before Stamkos was in the NHL. He has made people better. Doesn't exactly need someone.

Puck Head
05-12-2014, 01:33 PM
Gut feeling.. MSL needs his "Stamkos" before we sign him in 2 years.

I Kreider needs to work on his hands, it won't be with MSL

Thump23
05-12-2014, 01:41 PM
I don't know if he'll ever develop the instincts of a 40+ goal guy. But with his size, speed and shot there's no reason he can't pot 25-30 a season. Add in this new found snarl and we're looking at a very dominant power forward for a bunch of years.

dome
05-12-2014, 01:50 PM
I honestly can't remember a guy this big and that fast.

JOHN
05-12-2014, 01:57 PM
All the man love for Kreider has already been expounded upon, so I'll take a different tact.

While Kreider's game (and especially how he tends to show up in the playoffs) give me a proper full on, I also love what he does for our depth. We go from being stretched thin to a balanced line up again that's hard to match up with, because we have speed on every line, a top line with two big skilled bodies (Nash was using it, too), a bottom line that's big, tough on the puck and can hold it in an opposing teams zone, a 2nd line that has two smaller quick guys on the outside with a slower but very good playmaker, and a third line that dangles you to death after they go in hard on the forecheck. It's what made them electrifying before he got hurt, and it totally takes pressure off of McD, because people focus on Kreider when he's on the ice. It doesn't matter if he's in his end or the other, people know his speed is there and try to cheat it when he's taking his shift and they know he's coming at them hard when they have the puck so they're looking up. Sid is a perfect example of a guy who was frustrated to hell because of Kreider and it made everyone else's job easier because of it.

Yeah he takes bad penalties (took one last night) but you'll take then when he's on his game and bringing everything else he can bring to the table, especially in the playoffs.

dome
05-12-2014, 02:01 PM
Bad penalty? The one where Jokinen stepped on a land mine? or where Letang shoved Kreider into Fleury?

The refs have never given him the benefit of the doubt. Understandable to a point.. He is huge, plays the game at a high speed and has an edge.. but still..

Get the fuckin calls right.

JOHN
05-12-2014, 02:18 PM
Bad penalty? The one where Jokinen stepped on a land mine? or where Letang shoved Kreider into Fleury?

The refs have never given him the benefit of the doubt. Understandable to a point.. He is huge, plays the game at a high speed and has an edge.. but still..

Get the fuckin calls right.

The first one he took was still call-able, despite the obvious flop. He's also prone to taking bad stick penalties in the offensive zone.

I'm more than willing to overlook all of that though with what he brings.

Ranger Lothbrok
02-17-2015, 10:39 AM
Was going to make a new Kreider thread, but figured I'd just revive the most recent one.

Don't look now fellas, but we got a hockey player on our hands. And I mean a HOCKEY player. North south, no bullshit, no excuses, size, skill, speed and even grit on display each shift. He'll turn 23 at the end of April. Power forwards take longer to develop, and the hockey sense is coming around. What does a 27 year old Kreider look like for this team?

Barring something unforeseen, he should crack 20 goals for the first time this season. Thereafter, he should routinely crack 25 or 30. His speed makes options, as does his size and toughness. He's catching defenders flat-footed, and it seems he's figured out that if he wants to force his will, there's not a lot of players that can stop him. I saw him protect the puck using his size several times in recent games.

Those physical tools we keep hearing about? He's learning how to use them, and they're paying dividends.

Morphinity
02-17-2015, 10:42 AM
Was going to make a new Kreider thread, but figured I'd just revive the most recent one.

Don't look now fellas, but we got a hockey player on our hands. And I mean a HOCKEY player. North south, no bullshit, no excuses, size, skill, speed and even grit on display each shift. He'll turn 23 at the end of April. Power forwards take longer to develop, and the hockey sense is coming around. What does a 27 year old Kreider look like for this team?

Barring something unforeseen, he should crack 20 goals for the first time this season. Thereafter, he should routinely crack 25 or 30. His speed makes options, as does his size and toughness. He's catching defenders flat-footed, and it seems he's figured out that if he wants to force his will, there's not a lot of players that can stop him. I saw him protect the puck using his size several times in recent games.

Those physical tools we keep hearing about? He's learning how to use them, and they're paying dividends.

Well, let's not make a leap in logic here. We've seen how poor his decision making can be and we know how streaky that makes him.

Good for him and good for us, though. He's playing well in big games at big moments. Maybe we can replace BGBB with BGCK.

Pete
02-17-2015, 10:44 AM
I love Kreider when he's on.

I hate Kreider when he isn't. And he isn't on enough for my liking, given his role on the team.

I don't see him routinely cracking 30 goals. Huge assumption there.

I think some seasons he may flirt with 30, or even 35, but he's way too inconsistent to make a prediction about goal totals. The only reliable thing about his game is his inconsistency.

Over the last 20 or so games he's on a 40 goal pace, but my god he's probably the most frustrating player on the team as far as WTF moments.

Phil in Absentia
02-17-2015, 10:49 AM
Well, let's not make a leap in logic here. We've seen how poor his decision making can be and we know how streaky that makes him.

Good for him and good for us, though. He's playing well in big games at big moments. Maybe we can replace BGBB with BGCK.

Speaking only to the logic of pace and progress, it's not inconceivable that he continues to see improvement.

His year-to-year P/GP (0.13, 0.56, 0.58) and G/GP (0.08, 0.25, 0.26) averages have been increasing, albeit only marginally each season, so logically speaking there's nothing to say they won't continue to do so. The only place I'd argue is over expectation — specifically the expectations you may have as to how much they'll continue to increase per season, and to what point they reach a cap. That said, thirty goals in at least one season, at least to me, isn't that inconceivable a notion if he continues to improve each season.

Phil in Absentia
02-17-2015, 10:51 AM
I love Kreider when he's on.

I hate Kreider when he isn't. And he isn't on enough for my liking, given his role on the team.

I don't see him routinely cracking 30 goals. Huge assumption there.

I think some seasons he may flirt with 30, or even 35, but he's way too inconsistent to make a prediction about goal totals. The only reliable thing about his game is his inconsistency.

Over the last 20 or so games he's on a 40 goal pace, but my god he's probably the most frustrating player on the team as far as WTF moments.

Exactly. I think you basically see an Erik Cole-like path for him, where he gives you a consistent 20-20-40, on average, over the span of his career, but there will be that one, maybe two seasons where he "breaks out" and kind of explodes offensively. This tends to happen often with power forwards like this. Few end up like Lindros. Most end up like Cole.

Ranger Lothbrok
02-17-2015, 10:58 AM
Speaking only to the logic of pace and progress, it's not inconceivable that he continues to see improvement.

His year-to-year P/GP (0.13, 0.56, 0.58) and G/GP (0.08, 0.25, 0.26) averages have been increasing, albeit only marginally each season, so logically speaking there's nothing to say they won't continue to do so. The only place I'd argue is over expectation — specifically the expectations you may have as to how much they'll continue to increase per season, and to what point they reach a cap. That said, thirty goals in at least one season, at least to me, isn't that inconceivable a notion if he continues to improve each season.

Right. The word "routinely" is premature, as Pete mentioned, and a byproduct of the high following a good win and Kreider's hot streak. That said, my frustrations with him are less and less each game. We always knew his hockey IQ was lacking, if not missing entirely. But I see a player who's learning each game. It's slow progress, as it tends to be with power forwards, but with each passing game I'm seeing less of the bad and more of the good.

He may never be the offensive dynamo we're all hoping for when we see his ability on display, but I see him maturing in to a very effective "old school" hockey player. The 25 goal part of my "25 or 30" prediction is of course more realistic, but we have to keep in mind that he's not stagnating. He's not an inconsistent 30 year old player with a "streaky" reputation, though he could very well eventually become that. But for the time being, he's only 23 and improving each year.

He adds a dynamic we don't have a lot of. And I don't see him spinning his tires, I see him INCHING forward. But I think the big thing for me is seeing him realize his size and strength. He's using his body more effectively, and his speed is getting him chances consistently.

Future
02-17-2015, 11:05 AM
Exactly. I think you basically see an Erik Cole-like path for him, where he gives you a consistent 20-20-40, on average, over the span of his career, but there will be that one, maybe two seasons where he "breaks out" and kind of explodes offensively. This tends to happen often with power forwards like this. Few end up like Lindros. Most end up like Cole.
Not many of those power forwards have Kreider's speed though...actually I can't think of anyone who has his speed/size. 20-20 would be disappointing for him as his ceiling is much higher than that. He'll surpass that this year even with that poor stretch.

B/c of his inconsistency, it's hard to really put a guess on what he will become. I agree with Lothbrok that a lot of his inconsistencies will go away as he matures as an NHLer. I don't think him being a 25-30 goal scorer every year is unrealistic at all. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me to see him pot 40 once or twice. The guy just has unmatched physical tools, and as he refines his hockey skills he's going to continue to get better. The other thing he's got going for him is that he's going to be able to play a lot of games with Derek Stepan...who is the perfect center for a winger like Kreider. It's hard to find the right match for a PWF - look at Nash's career - but Steps and Kreider fit really well together.

Phil in Absentia
02-17-2015, 11:06 AM
Right. The word "routinely" is premature, as Pete mentioned, and a byproduct of the high following a good win and Kreider's hot streak. That said, my frustrations with him are less and less each game. We always knew his hockey IQ was lacking, if not missing entirely. But I see a player who's learning each game. It's slow progress, as it tends to be with power forwards, but with each passing game I'm seeing less of the bad and more of the good.

He may never be the offensive dynamo we're all hoping for when we see his ability on display, but I see him maturing in to a very effective "old school" hockey player. The 25 goal part of my "25 or 30" prediction is of course more realistic, but we have to keep in mind that he's not stagnating. He's not an inconsistent 30 year old player with a "streaky" reputation, though he could very well eventually become that. But for the time being, he's only 23 and improving each year.

He adds a dynamic we don't have a lot of. And I don't see him spinning his tires, I see him INCHING forward. But I think the big thing for me is seeing him realize his size and strength. He's using his body more effectively, and his speed is getting him chances consistently.

Sure. I see the same things. I love players like this too, because I've always fantasized about having a Rangers' team built in the way of the Ducks or Flyers or teams similar to them in the past where everyone is big, strong and mean and yet everyone has skill. Kreider has a lot of these attributes inherently. The skill aspect is what we're still unsure of, but based on his progression, it's not inconceivable that he finds that niche the way most PF-types do, right around the age of 26-28.

Phil in Absentia
02-17-2015, 11:10 AM
Not many of those power forwards have Kreider's speed though...actually I can't think of anyone who has his speed/size. 20-20 would be disappointing for him as his ceiling is much higher than that. He'll surpass that this year even with that poor stretch.

B/c of his inconsistency, it's hard to really put a guess on what he will become. I agree with Lothbrok that a lot of his inconsistencies will go away as he matures as an NHLer. I don't think him being a 25-30 goal scorer every year is unrealistic at all. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me to see him pot 40 once or twice. The guy just has unmatched physical tools, and as he refines his hockey skills he's going to continue to get better.

That 20-20-40 is a baseline. I'm using it as a mandatory minimum, with the understanding that in his prime years, he'll likely be [well] above it in most seasons. What I'm saying is that in off years, oft-injured years, or toward the tail end of his career (as well as the start of his career), he's likely to hover right around that mark. It's a common path for PF-type players. They come in, kind of get it, but kind of don't, then hit a stretch (usually from 26-28) where they dominate, and then based on the style of game they play, as injuries mount and the body breaks down, slowly dwindle from there.

The key, as a franchise, is to hope not to get caught having to pay a player like this when they turn 26, 27 or 28, because you end up in cap hell for it, paying a guy who hits 30-40 goals like a consistent 30-40 goal scorer, when in reality, it's probably the peak of their career.

As to the speed thing, there are plenty of PF players who've had wheels. I'm not really interested in the minutia of comparing who is faster and by what degree. It doesn't matter. Corey Perry, for example, has plenty of wheel. So did Jarome Iginla through most of his career.

BrooklynBoy89
02-17-2015, 11:11 AM
Right. The word "routinely" is premature, as Pete mentioned, and a byproduct of the high following a good win and Kreider's hot streak. That said, my frustrations with him are less and less each game. We always knew his hockey IQ was lacking, if not missing entirely. But I see a player who's learning each game. It's slow progress, as it tends to be with power forwards, but with each passing game I'm seeing less of the bad and more of the good.

He may never be the offensive dynamo we're all hoping for when we see his ability on display, but I see him maturing in to a very effective "old school" hockey player. The 25 goal part of my "25 or 30" prediction is of course more realistic, but we have to keep in mind that he's not stagnating. He's not an inconsistent 30 year old player with a "streaky" reputation, though he could very well eventually become that. But for the time being, he's only 23 and improving each year.

He adds a dynamic we don't have a lot of. And I don't see him spinning his tires, I see him INCHING forward. But I think the big thing for me is seeing him realize his size and strength. He's using his body more effectively, and his speed is getting him chances consistently.

This here.. Just watching that 4th goal where he assisted on Steps goal. He made a huge power move down the wall, pushed the D Man back, spun around and laid it right on Stepans stick. He has seemed to have found his niche on the ice. His size and speed can't be stopped and when he wants to dominate he can, it is truly exciting to watch. I hope he can continue to build on his success this year and fine tune some of his mental errors, unfortunately it's easier said than done. I can definitely see him potting 20-25 consistently in this offense over the next few years.

momentum
02-17-2015, 11:18 AM
I love Kreider when he's on.

I hate Kreider when he isn't. And he isn't on enough for my liking, given his role on the team.

I don't see him routinely cracking 30 goals. Huge assumption there.

I think some seasons he may flirt with 30, or even 35, but he's way too inconsistent to make a prediction about goal totals. The only reliable thing about his game is his inconsistency.

Over the last 20 or so games he's on a 40 goal pace, but my god he's probably the most frustrating player on the team as far as WTF moments.

I agree he can be frustrating but I feel that we're seeing him maturing before our eyes this season, he's learning and you can tell. I think he can become a solid 30 goal scorer in this league if he continues the way he is now. The mistakes and wtf moments seems to become less and less frequent imo and he's making better and better decisions out there.

Future
02-17-2015, 11:19 AM
That 20-20-40 is a baseline. I'm using it as a mandatory minimum, with the understanding that in his prime years, he'll likely be [well] above it in most seasons. What I'm saying is that in off years, oft-injured years, or toward the tail end of his career (as well as the start of his career), he's likely to hover right around that mark. It's a common path for PF-type players. They come in, kind of get it, but kind of don't, then hit a stretch (usually from 26-28) where they dominate, and then based on the style of game they play, as injuries mount and the body breaks down, slowly dwindle from there.

The key, as a franchise, is to hope not to get caught having to pay a player like this when they turn 26, 27 or 28, because you end up in cap hell for it, paying a guy who hits 30-40 goals like a consistent 30-40 goal scorer, when in reality, it's probably the peak of their career.

As to the speed thing, there are plenty of PF players who've had wheels. I'm not really interested in the minutia of comparing who is faster and by what degree. It doesn't matter. Corey Perry, for example, has plenty of wheel. So did Jarome Iginla through most of his career.
Ok, I didn't realize that's what you meant.

Perry and Iginla don't fit that mold that you reference though. They're both probably HoFers when all is said and done, and I won't necessarily put Kreider in that category, but they are the ones who can skate and be PWFs (though I will argue that Kreids is faster than both, even if you don't want to ;) ) and neither hit peak that you're referring to.

Thump23
02-17-2015, 11:20 AM
Sure. I see the same things. I love players like this too, because I've always fantasized about having a Rangers' team built in the way of the Ducks or Flyers or teams similar to them in the past where everyone is big, strong and mean and yet everyone has skill. Kreider has a lot of these attributes inherently. The skill aspect is what we're still unsure of, but based on his progression, it's not inconceivable that he finds that niche the way most PF-types do, right around the age of 26-28.

His passing has improved quite a bit this season - outlet/breakout and in the offensive zone. He's still prone to making those head scratching plays at times and I'm not sure that's ever going to completely disappear but you're going to have to take the good with the bad with a player like this. Hopefully the good continues to outweigh the bad. If he shoots the puck more and learns where to be in the offensive zone without the puck I don't think 30 goals is out of the question.

Pete
02-17-2015, 11:23 AM
I don't think people realize how hard it is to score 40 goals when they throw that number out.

3 players scored 40+ last year.
The year prior was half a year.
Prior to that...4.
Before that, 5.

The names sprinkled on the list are Perry, Ovechkin, Kessel, Stamkos. Kreider isn't in their class.

Phil in Absentia
02-17-2015, 11:24 AM
Ok, I didn't realize that's what you meant.

Perry and Iginla don't fit that mold that you reference though. They're both probably HoFers when all is said and done, and I won't necessarily put Kreider in that category, but they are the ones who can skate and be PWFs (though I will argue that Kreids is faster than both, even if you don't want to ;) ) and neither hit peak that you're referring to.

Of power forward? Of course they do. Iginla is a first-ballot hall-of-famer, and Perry may be by the end of his career, but they are absolutely built in the traditional mold of power forward. Just as Erik Cole is/was. Just as Milan Lucic is/was. Just as Cam Neely is/was. Not all PF players are or will be HOF-worthy, and not all actualize into substantial threats. Sometimes you end up with Zach Kassian (highly touted, bust), sometimes you end up with Nathan Horton (injury-plagued, and other times you end up with Iginla (HOF). Your player can literally land anywhere in between. It's like a giant game of Plinko. Good luck predicting it, because you'll be wrong probably just as often as you are right, and the odds of you predicting, correctly, consistently, which PF's will or won't reach X results is a total roll of the dice. There are too many variables based on the way that role is played (like injuries) that can derail the career/projection of any given player.

Kreider is no exception to this. All I can hope for, as a Rangers fan, is that he avoids the injury bug as long as he can.

Phil in Absentia
02-17-2015, 11:26 AM
I don't think people realize how hard it is to score 40 goals when they throw that number out.

3 players scored 40+ last year.
The year prior was half a year.
Prior to that...4.
Before that, 5.

The names sprinkled on the list are Perry, Ovechkin, Kessel, Stamkos. Kreider isn't in their class.

I don't think people realize how hard it is to score 30, let alone 40. Even among 30-goal scorers, you're still only talking about around twenty players in the entire league. Of the 700 or so players, twenty, on average, will get 30 goals. That's less than 3% of active NHL players in any given year.

Even if you go with the baseline of 540 possible skaters (discounting goaltenders), twenty players out of that number is still less than 4%.

Johnnydollaz18
02-17-2015, 11:38 AM
I wish Kreider would play with that type of edge and energy to his game on a nightly basis, and not once in a blue moon. Kid was a beast last night.

Future
02-17-2015, 11:41 AM
I don't think people realize how hard it is to score 30, let alone 40. Even among 30-goal scorers, you're still only talking about around twenty players in the entire league. Of the 700 or so players, twenty, on average, will get 30 goals. That's less than 3% of active NHL players in any given year.

Even if you go with the baseline of 540 possible skaters (discounting goaltenders), twenty players out of that number is still less than 4%.
Who is saying that it's easy?

I don't think anybody expects Kreider to score between 30-40 goals a year. I think people are just saying that it's not unrealistic. Big difference.

Pete
02-17-2015, 11:50 AM
You think it's realistic for Kreider to be in the same conversation with AO, Stammer, Perry, Kessel, and maybe 1-2 other guys? I do. Completely unrealistic.

I will be happy if he hovers in the 22-28 goal category and flirts with 35 on occasion.

Phil in Absentia
02-17-2015, 11:53 AM
Who is saying that it's easy?

I don't think anybody expects Kreider to score between 30-40 goals a year. I think people are just saying that it's not unrealistic. Big difference.

Except that the mathematical percentages do indicate that it's unrealistic as an expectation. As a hope, it's perfectly fine to hold onto, but very few players actualize into thirty or forty-goal scorers, and when you look at who do, there's a pretty consistent theme among them being offensively gifted from a young age. Most were stars going back to their Junior/NCAA/Overseas years. Kreider was not. We're probably getting hung up on the semantics of which words are being used, but I'd be really reserved, just personally speaking, with how I associate Chris Kreider's name and "30 or 40 goals". Meaning, I'd probably write something like "it's conceivable that he could peak his scoring totals in a season, maybe two, where he scores 30 or 40 goals, but these would ultimately be outliers over his career average, which is likely to regress to the mean of around the 20-goal mark in most years he plays". Maybe that's too verbose, but to me, it matters.

Puck Head
02-17-2015, 11:55 AM
I don't think people realize how hard it is to score 40 goals when they throw that number out.

3 players scored 40+ last year.
The year prior was half a year.
Prior to that...4.
Before that, 5.

The names sprinkled on the list are Perry, Ovechkin, Kessel, Stamkos. Kreider isn't in their class.

One other thing to note.
No player is going to get 30-40 goals if they aren't on the number 1 PP
And Kreider hasn't earned that yet.

Pete
02-17-2015, 11:56 AM
One other thing to note.
No player is going to get 30-40 goals if they aren't on the number 1 PP
And Kreider hasn't earned that yet.

That, too.

But now that MSL is off the #1, maybe CK gets on there?

Puck Head
02-17-2015, 11:58 AM
That, too.

But now that MSL is off the #1, maybe CK gets on there?

Maybe. But he hasn't earned anything up front there....yet.
IMO Stepan, Nash, Brassard, Zucc show me they are worthy of that top 5.


And one other thing....I'm not saying ever player should be able to kill penalties.
But I think at some point CK has to look in mirror and determine how he makes his game more well rounded.

Slobberknocker
02-17-2015, 12:01 PM
Is it a coincidence that his Dad stuck around after the Dad trip?

Future
02-17-2015, 12:06 PM
Except that the mathematical percentages do indicate that it's unrealistic as an expectation. As a hope, it's perfectly fine to hold onto, but very few players actualize into thirty or forty-goal scorers, and when you look at who do, there's a pretty consistent theme among them being offensively gifted from a young age. Most were stars going back to their Junior/NCAA/Overseas years. Kreider was not. We're probably getting hung up on the semantics of which words are being used, but I'd be really reserved, just personally speaking, with how I associate Chris Kreider's name and "30 or 40 goals". Meaning, I'd probably write something like "it's conceivable that he could peak his scoring totals in a season, maybe two, where he scores 30 or 40 goals, but these would ultimately be outliers over his career average, which is likely to regress to the mean of around the 20-goal mark in most years he plays". Maybe that's too verbose, but to me, it matters.
lol, yea, that's probably too verbose. But actually that's what I was saying, only instead of 20 I think that number is 25ish.

Morphinity
02-17-2015, 12:07 PM
Is it a coincidence that his Dad stuck around after the Dad trip?

Maybe not. It's not as crazy as it sounds.

You play better when your dad is there watching, trust me.

Phil in Absentia
02-17-2015, 12:13 PM
lol, yea, that's probably too verbose. But actually that's what I was saying, only instead of 20 I think that number is 25ish.

For his yearly average? Eh, probably a little too high. I think the 20~ range is going to be closer to his career average based on the type of player he is (PF), and the relationship that role has with injuries as those players age.

Now his, G/GP, sure, maybe that's closer to the 25-goal mark (over 82 games), but I think he's going to come closer to actually scoring around 20 goals each season than 25.

Pete
02-17-2015, 12:17 PM
Maybe. But he hasn't earned anything up front there....yet.
IMO Stepan, Nash, Brassard, Zucc show me they are worthy of that top 5.


And one other thing....I'm not saying ever player should be able to kill penalties.
But I think at some point CK has to look in mirror and determine how he makes his game more well rounded.

You can teach PKing —*to smart players. I'm just not seeing him in that mold of being able to read and react quickly enough.

Thump23
02-17-2015, 12:20 PM
One other thing to note.
No player is going to get 30-40 goals if they aren't on the number 1 PP
And Kreider hasn't earned that yet.

Ironically he's tied for the team lead with 5 ppg.

Pete
02-17-2015, 12:25 PM
Our PP has been by committee. We have 3 players tied with 5 PPG and 11 with a PPG.

By contrast, Detroit has 13, but Nyqvist has 5 more than Tatar.

Caps have 9, but AO has twice as many as the next guy.

We don't have a dominant PP player.

Thump23
02-17-2015, 12:29 PM
Our PP has been by committee. We have 3 players tied with 5 PPG and 11 with a PPG.

By contrast, Detroit has 13, but Nyqvist has 5 more than Tatar.

Caps have 9, but AO has twice as many as the next guy.

We don't have a dominant PP player.

Agreed. It seems they want constant/quick puck movement from all five guys and that's definitely not his thing. PP looks to be running a little differently these last few games.

MacTruck
02-17-2015, 12:32 PM
"juggernaut" - a huge, powerful, and overwhelming force or institution.

CreaseCrusader91
02-17-2015, 12:53 PM
One other thing to note.
No player is going to get 30-40 goals if they aren't on the number 1 PP
And Kreider hasn't earned that yet.

I don't agree with this since there have been tons of guys who scored 30 or 40 at ES alone during their career.

Stammer did it with 48 in 11-12
Ovechkin did it with 43 in 07-08 and 36 in 08-09.
Crosby with 36 in 09-10
Iginla with 35 in 07-08

Nash has 35 goals. 26 at ES and he will surpass that.

It's hard but it happens with frequency for top scorers. Kreider won't do it, but others can.

Pete
02-17-2015, 12:58 PM
I don't agree with this since there have been tons of guys who scored 30 or 40 at ES alone during their career.

Stammer did it with 48 in 11-12
Ovechkin did it with 43 in 07-08 and 36 in 08-09.
Crosby with 36 in 09-10
Iginla with 35 in 07-08

Nash has 35 goals. 26 at ES and he will surpass that.

It's hard but it happens with frequency for top scorers. Kreider won't do it, but others can.

This doesn't take into account goals scored at the end of a PP or a delayed penalty, of which you would think there are at least a handful. But also, playing on the PP can change your mindset in terms of confidence and approach, as well. It's not just about counting ES markers. There's no telling if any of those players get to those ES numbers if they were getting :20 of PP time per penalty.

Dunny
02-17-2015, 01:01 PM
Best I've ever seen him last night. He had swagger.

CreaseCrusader91
02-17-2015, 01:11 PM
This doesn't take into account goals scored at the end of a PP or a delayed penalty, of which you would think there are at least a handful. But also, playing on the PP can change your mindset in terms of confidence and approach, as well. It's not just about counting ES markers. There's no telling if any of those players get to those ES numbers if they were getting :20 of PP time per penalty.

I realize that. It does help mindset and there are some "flukey goals." My point though was the listed names get tons of PP time but they also dominated at ES.

Pete
02-17-2015, 01:16 PM
I realize that. It does help mindset and there are some "flukey goals." My point though was the listed names get tons of PP time but they also dominated at ES.

True, but who was the last 40 goal scorer that wasn't a staple on their teams #1 PP unit?

CreaseCrusader91
02-17-2015, 02:03 PM
True, but who was the last 40 goal scorer that wasn't a staple on their teams #1 PP unit?

It's a good point and I can't think of one off the top of my head. I was looking at the TOI but valued the actually production a bit more but you do raise a solid point.

Pete
02-17-2015, 02:27 PM
It's a good point and I can't think of one off the top of my head. I was looking at the TOI but valued the actually production a bit more but you do raise a solid point.

Yea. But the flip side of that is that when someone is producing at a 40 goal pace at ES, how do you not use them on the #1 unit. Chicken/egg argument?

CreaseCrusader91
02-17-2015, 02:28 PM
Yea. But the flip side of that is that when someone is producing at a 40 goal pace at ES, how do you not use them on the #1 unit. Chicken/egg argument?

Right. I get all of that but its weird Nash dominates at even strength but has only 5 while against one less defender. Just odd to me.

Pete
02-17-2015, 02:31 PM
Right. I get all of that but its weird Nash dominates at even strength but has only 5 while against one less defender. Just odd to me.

He also dominates short handed.

I think it's just due to the fact that our PP has many "weapons" and gives different looks.

Also, guys like Stamkos and Ovechkin have the shot that Nash doesn't have.

Nash scores a lot of goals off the rush and in 1 on 1 with the goalie, and those situations are less likely to happen on the PP.