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Pete
01-08-2014, 02:33 PM
One of the players thought to excel in a more wide open style was Derek Stepan.

After holding out and signing a 2 year deal for $3.075/AAV after a season when he had .92 points per game, Stepan has regressed to the player he was for his previous 2 years (as well as the player he was to start last year). In fact, he slightly regressed from .62 to .59 P/G.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20105550/Screen%20Shot%202014-01-08%20at%202.17.29%20PM.png

There a few factors that could be attributed to this are missing camp, missing linemates due to injury, new system. At this point, half a season in, are there really any other reasons? His line mates are back (and Kreider is a monster), it's half a season in so adjustment.

At what point do we really know what Stepan is? A #1 or #2 center?

thecurse0101
01-08-2014, 02:37 PM
I would not consider Stepan a first line center with the way he has been playing this season. if he can find the Derek of last year, i'll include him in the first line center convo.

Pete
01-08-2014, 02:40 PM
I would not consider Stepan a first line center with the way he has been playing this season. if he can find the Derek of last year, i'll include him in the first line center convo.

Well that's kind of my point. Which Stepan is the "real" one?

Shane Falco
01-08-2014, 02:44 PM
Well that's kind of my point. Which Stepan is the "real" one?

I think his ceiling is a solid 2nd line center. Which on this team makes him a 1st by default.

!br-avery!
01-08-2014, 02:45 PM
He's been off all season,don't know why,and he just doesn't seem to have the puck that much at all this season either.
Take away his hat trick and he has 4 goals in 43 games,that is just not getting it done no matter how you look at it.

CreaseCrusader91
01-08-2014, 02:46 PM
I consider Stepan to be our lite version of Patrice Bergeron sans the FO ability. 55-65 points in a second line role. He is better defensively than offensively, so having him in that role would be fine for me.

If BR did his job we wouldn't have this problem.

Patrick Bateman
01-08-2014, 02:49 PM
I think we first need to define what a #1 and #2 center is. Is a #1 center anyone in the top 30 in the league at the position? Because if that's the interpretation, then I would say yes, he is a #1 center currently. If you're basing it on points, then what's the threshold? The last time there was an 82 game season, only 10 centers scored more than 70 points.

phillyb™
01-08-2014, 02:49 PM
as far as i'm concerned the rangers don't have a #1 center.

Morphinity
01-08-2014, 02:52 PM
I think we first need to define what a #1 and #2 center is. Is a #1 center anyone in the top 30 in the league at the position? Because if that's the interpretation, then I would say yes, he is a #1 center currently. If you're basing it on points, then what's the threshold? The last time there was an 82 game season, only 10 centers scored more than 70 points.

Interesting stat.

Pete
01-08-2014, 02:54 PM
I think we first need to define what a #1 and #2 center is. Is a #1 center anyone in the top 30 in the league at the position? Because if that's the interpretation, then I would say yes, he is a #1 center currently. If you're basing it on points, then what's the threshold? The last time there was an 82 game season, only 10 centers scored more than 70 points.

You're not counting points per game, or accounting for injury. Datsyuk had 67 in 70 and Crosby was hurt. Also, 2 guys out of the 70 point bubble were (Marleau and Couture) 30+goal scorers so you can live with less assists, IMO. But I get what you're saying.

I'm basing it on what I always base it on...eyeballs first. There is a clear difference between the guy who wore 21 last season, and the guy who wore it the 2 seasons prior and this season...So was last year an anomaly?

Puck Head
01-08-2014, 02:57 PM
On top of that, you would have to think, (or at least I did)...that even outside of points, (which can fluctuate somewhat year to year)...

We would or will see steady development progression.
I don't mind him not getting quite as many PPG...whole team is struggling.

What concerns me is that he simply doesn't look visable around the rink like he did last season.
IMO Kredier is carrying that line right now.

Patrick Bateman
01-08-2014, 03:06 PM
It could be that he's just better in the second half of seasons.

Last year he had 16 points in the first 24 games, and then scored 28 points the last 24 games

Mike
01-08-2014, 03:10 PM
One of the players thought to excel in a more wide open style was Derek Stepan.

After holding out and signing a 2 year deal for $3.075/AAV after a season when he had .92 points per game, Stepan has regressed to the player he was for his previous 2 years (as well as the player he was to start last year). In fact, he slightly regressed from .62 to .59 P/G.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20105550/Screen%20Shot%202014-01-08%20at%202.17.29%20PM.png

There a few factors that could be attributed to this are missing camp, missing linemates due to injury, new system. At this point, half a season in, are there really any other reasons? His line mates are back (and Kreider is a monster), it's half a season in so adjustment.

At what point do we really know what Stepan is? A #1 or #2 center?

I'm tired of hearing about coaches, and systems, and ice, and lighting, and the concession guy serving bad chicken, and every other excuse for poor play. I know you're not making excuses, and I'm sure Stepan isn't either, but it's just getting old. Play fuckin hockey, it's something you've been doing since you were 4. Get your head(s) out of your ass(es), and just play the fuckin game.

momentum
01-08-2014, 03:14 PM
Stepan is a second line center, this is what I said all along in the offseason when ppl just wrote him in as a great topline center based on last seasons play, I wanted to wait and see if it was an anomaly and I think it's safe to say it was. He's back to his regular Stepan play at this point and it's what I expected. Same thing could be said for Brassard who everyone thought was a point per game guy suddenly.

A topline center should be on the very top of our wish list...if we could fill that spot stepan would slide down to the second line spot where he belongs and the the trickle down effect would be felt on the whole team in a positive way.

Phil in Absentia
01-08-2014, 03:23 PM
The guy I keep coming back to whenever Stepan is talked of in terms of role and potential is David Krejci. Something of an untraditional first-line center because of his poor skating/speed, but the role he's playing based who he's on the ice with most (and how often) say otherwise. I personally consider 65 points around the the marker [over 82 games] for separating "first-line" from "second" when speaking in generalities, but as Puck pointed out, what's far more concerning is how the player looks, because the eyes don't tell the same story as the stats right now. He just doesn't control the ice this year, at all. He's already a poor skater, and a slow one at that, but he's shown vision, the ability to read play development on the fly, etc. in the past that just doesn't seem to have come to the surface this year, and at 45 games, there's no way I'm buying any of the usual suspect of excuses as to why (system, new coach, hold out, games played, etc).

I have no idea why he's not showing the progression the team, I'd imagine, wants to see out of him, but I'm at least glad they didn't sign him to the contract he was originally looking for (McDonagh's extension), because at $4.7M, the expectations for this year would have been even worse compared to what he's actually doing.

This is also exactly the reason I was so reluctant to sign on board with giving him the contract McDonagh was given in the first place. McDonagh showed it. Stepan didn't.

Patrick Bateman
01-08-2014, 03:27 PM
The guy I keep coming back to whenever Stepan is talked of in terms of role and potential is David Krejci. Something of an untraditional first-line center because of his poor skating/speed, but the role he's playing based who he's on the ice with most (and how often) say otherwise. I personally consider 65 points around the the marker [over 82 games] for separating "first-line" from "second" when speaking in generalities, but as Puck pointed out, what's far more concerning is how the player looks, because the eyes don't tell the same story as the stats right now. He just doesn't control the ice this year, at all. He's already a poor skater, and a slow one at that, but he's shown vision, the ability to read play development on the fly, etc. in the past that just doesn't seem to have come to the surface this year, and at 45 games, there's no way I'm buying any of the usual suspect of excuses as to why (system, new coach, hold out, games played, etc).

I have no idea why he's not showing the progression the team, I'd imagine, wants to see out of him, but I'm at least glad they didn't sign him to the contract he was originally looking for (McDonagh's extension), because at $4.7M, the expectations for this year would have been even worse compared to what he's actually doing.

This is also exactly the reason I was so reluctant to sign on board with giving him the contract McDonagh was given in the first place. McDonagh showed it. Stepan didn't.

I agree with this. I think people confuse the first line center title with someone being an elite center. If your thinking of people who you consider a first line center, and if the number of names you come up with is equivalent to only half the number of teams in the league, you need to rethink your definition

ThirtyONE
01-08-2014, 03:33 PM
He's not elite but he's definitely a first line center. Granted his game isn't where it can be but it's sufficient. I heard he was battling a bit of an injury for the majority of this season so far so if that is in fact true it would hopefully explain a lot.

Pete
01-08-2014, 03:34 PM
I agree with this. I think people confuse the first line center title with someone being an elite center. If your thinking of people who you consider a first line center, and if the number of names you come up with is equivalent to only half the number of teams in the league, you need to rethink your definitionHis stats outside of last year call him a career 45-50 point player. So is that a first line player or no?

Patrick Bateman
01-08-2014, 03:41 PM
His stats outside of last year call him a career 45-50 point player. So is that a first line player or no?

He's still young though. I think we need to see what he does the rest of this season

Pete
01-08-2014, 03:43 PM
He's still young though. I think we need to see what he does the rest of this season

Bo0oo0ooo0o0oo00o. Take a stand, make a statement that we can go back and chastise you for in 2 years! That's what BSBH is all about.

Patrick Bateman
01-08-2014, 03:45 PM
He will finish this season with 66 points

Pete
01-08-2014, 03:47 PM
He will finish this season with 66 points

So, in the grey area between 1st and 2nd liner....Well played.

Patrick Bateman
01-08-2014, 03:49 PM
But a strong enough finish to the season where our confidence in him as a #1 is reinstated

Drew a Penalty
01-08-2014, 03:53 PM
I consider Stepan to be our lite version of Patrice Bergeron sans the FO ability. 55-65 points in a second line role. He is better defensively than offensively, so having him in that role would be fine for me.

If BR did his job we wouldn't have this problem.

Stepan is good defensively, but he hasn't been close to his level of defensive play as he was last year. He's close to his amount of takeaways last season, but he was far more noticeable last season. Much of his offense last season came from making a strong defensive play first. He's not nearly as aggressive or effective against the opposition as last season. Frankly I think he doesn't fit the system all too well.

Puck Head
01-08-2014, 03:53 PM
His stats outside of last year call him a career 45-50 point player. So is that a first line player or no?

You are looking at stats of a 21 year old Peetie when saying "career"

Phil in Absentia
01-08-2014, 03:53 PM
I agree with this. I think people confuse the first line center title with someone being an elite center. If your thinking of people who you consider a first line center, and if the number of names you come up with is equivalent to only half the number of teams in the league, you need to rethink your definition

The defensivity (fuck it — that's now a word) of the league having risen as much as it has has forced this, the way I see it. You used to be able to look back and point to P/G players as the benchmark for first-line players/centers, but that's changed with how tight the game has become. Scoring is down, and seems to drop incrementally each year, while the defensive aspects of the game are only getting "better". Bigger, stronger, faster, but you'll notice there's something left off there, which is "more talented". The buck stops before it.

But, this year, right now, Stepan is only a first-line center on this team by default (lack of competition to push him out). He's pacing 48 points over 82 games, which puts him in a group closer to players like Frans Nielsen, Marcus Johansson, Mike Richards, etc. Second-line numbers, if you have to label it.

Puck Head
01-08-2014, 04:01 PM
Think of it this way...

Kreider- Stepan- Kristo

Would be exactly the type of second line we would love next season.

Issue is that "first" line players such as Richards, Nash, et simply aren't getting it done

Pete
01-08-2014, 04:06 PM
You are looking at stats of a 21 year old Peetie when saying "career"

I'm looking at the stats of a 23-24 year old who has played in his 4th NHL season and has a points per game average around .60 for 3 of them. That's 49.2 points over 82 games. My issue is, if he scores 55 points this year, and 75 next year when his deal is up, what do you do with him? Pay him like a 2nd line player, or like a guy who over-performs in contract years?


Think of it this way...

Kreider- Stepan- Kristo

Would be exactly the type of second line we would love next season.

Issue is that "first" line players such as Richards, Nash, et simply aren't getting it done

We know this, but I'd like to keep this thread about Stepan because we have other threads for those players.

I'd argue that Stepan isn't getting it done either, given his ice time and linemates.

Drew a Penalty
01-08-2014, 04:14 PM
I'm looking at the stats of a 23-24 year old who has played in his 4th NHL season and has a points per game average around .60 for 3 of them. That's 49.2 points over 82 games. My issue is, if he scores 55 points this year, and 75 next year when his deal is up, what do you do with him? Pay him like a 2nd line player, or like a guy who over-performs in contract years?

Simple solution. Keep giving him one year deals.

Phil in Absentia
01-08-2014, 04:16 PM
Simple solution. Keep giving him one year deals.

So he walks as a UFA for the biggest money as soon as possible? I wouldn't do this. I'd sooner trade him to a team who is willing to pay him than this.

Drew a Penalty
01-08-2014, 04:17 PM
So he walks as a UFA for the biggest money as soon as possible? I wouldn't do this. I'd sooner trade him to a team who is willing to pay him than this.

It was intended to be in more of a joking manner.

josh
01-08-2014, 04:22 PM
Think of it this way...

Kreider- Stepan- Kristo

Would be exactly the type of second line we would love next season.

Issue is that "first" line players such as Richards, Nash, et simply aren't getting it done
I like this idea.
But, Nash & Richards inabilities should not be negatively effecting Stepans stats this drastically.
In fact, they aren't. He is "on pace" for his usual season, when looking at offensive numbers.

Last season was not his benchmark season. At this point, it was an anomaly, and we have to discuss it as such.

BlueJay
01-08-2014, 05:04 PM
I consider Stepan to be our lite version of Patrice Bergeron sans the FO ability. 55-65 points in a second line role. He is better defensively than offensively, so having him in that role would be fine for me.

If BR did his job we wouldn't have this problem.

This, except he REALLY does suck on Faceoffs.

Puck Head
01-08-2014, 05:47 PM
Age 20
.54 PPG = 44pt season

Age 21
.62 PPG = 50pt season

Age 22
.91 PPG = 75pts season

Age 23
Now, I didn't expect him to improve on a 75pt season, but expected him to improve on his production at age 21 the year before.
We were seeing a very young players with a steady upward trend, and he seems to have gone backwards this year.
Hopefully he picks it up 2nd 1/2.

But you can throw away what type of "career" player he is....he was 20, 21, and 22. That tells us nothing.

Patrick Bateman
01-08-2014, 05:56 PM
I repped you before but I wish I could rep you again for using PPG

Vodka Drunkenski
01-08-2014, 05:57 PM
I don't know, never really have been impressed with him as a top player. He doesn't have enough skill to make up for his skating.

Shanahammer
01-08-2014, 06:01 PM
The main difference I see in his game this year versus last year is the speed at which he makes decisions with the puck. Last year, once he got going, he seemed to make a decision when the puck was on his stick and then do it without hesitating. This year, and at the beginning of last year, he just seemed to telegraph every pass/shot he took and just seemed to take a half second longer making a decision with the puck.

Pete
01-08-2014, 06:44 PM
Age 20
.54 PPG = 44pt season

Age 21
.62 PPG = 50pt season

Age 22
.91 PPG = 75pts season

Age 23
Now, I didn't expect him to improve on a 75pt season, but expected him to improve on his production at age 21 the year before.
We were seeing a very young players with a steady upward trend, and he seems to have gone backwards this year.
Hopefully he picks it up 2nd 1/2.

But you can throw away what type of "career" player he is....he was 20, 21, and 22. That tells us nothing.

Yes, I looked at his numbers before making the thread and they are posted in the OP. We can only discuss what he's done so far in his career, no?

You don't throw it away. Not at all. Not when there is regression.

Puck Head
01-08-2014, 07:08 PM
Yes, I looked at his numbers before making the thread and they are posted in the OP. We can only discuss what he's done so far in his career, no? You don't throw it away. Not at all. Not when there is regression.

But you don't say "career" in regards to expectations.

Do you honestly believe a 20 year old rookie should produce the same at age 25?

Puck Head
01-08-2014, 07:10 PM
Yes, I looked at his numbers before making the thread and they are posted in the OP. We can only discuss what he's done so far in his career, no? You don't throw it away. Not at all. Not when there is regression.

Big difference of talking "career" .60 PPG if the player has done that 6 years in a row from age 22-28
Pretty much tells you what he's capable of

You can't say Stepan has had .60 PPG career numbers and that's he player he is

Pete
01-08-2014, 07:20 PM
Big difference of talking "career" .60 PPG if the player has done that 6 years in a row from age 22-28
Pretty much tells you what he's capable of

You can't say Stepan has had .60 PPG career numbers and that's he player he is

That isn't what I said. You're misunderstanding. I said outside of last year, for his career he's around .60p/g. That isn't saying that's all he'll ever be. It's stating what he has been so far.

Pete
01-08-2014, 07:21 PM
But you don't say "career" in regards to expectations.

Do you honestly believe a 20 year old rookie should produce the same at age 25?

There should be rules against questions like this. I think you know me better, so I'm not sure why you're even asking.

torontonyr
01-08-2014, 07:23 PM
Stepan is a 1B center, just like Brad Richards before him.

Phil in Absentia
01-08-2014, 07:25 PM
Stepan is a 1B center, just like Brad Richards before him.

Richards has actually been a P/G performer though, and did it for multiple years.

Pete
01-08-2014, 07:27 PM
Yea Richards is his prime was definitely a number one, without question. His prime was just a small window.

Myusername
01-08-2014, 07:28 PM
Yeah, Richards in his (short) prime was much more of an impact player than Stepan. But again, Stepan is still pretty damn young.

josh
01-08-2014, 07:40 PM
Poor man's Richards, really. Hope he keeps progressing. That's the question, here. Will he?

Myusername
01-08-2014, 07:46 PM
Not sure why people even compare him to Richards other than the fact that they're both playmakers. I think the Bergeron comparison is a little more accurate

Phil in Absentia
01-08-2014, 07:47 PM
Not sure why people even compare him to Richards other than the fact that they're both playmakers. I think the Bergeron comparison is a little more accurate

Because they're equally shitty skaters as well.

He's not even close to Bergeron's level yet. Ryan O'Reilly is though.

CreaseCrusader91
01-08-2014, 08:06 PM
Because they're equally shitty skaters as well.

He's not even close to Bergeron's level yet. Ryan O'Reilly is though.

Ryan Kesler is another good one if you look at two way play and PPG.

Phil in Absentia
01-08-2014, 08:10 PM
Ryan Kesler is another good one if you look at two way play and PPG.

For a comparison to Bergeron, or Stepan? I'd put Berg, ROR and Kesler in a group, and then Stepan in with guys like Krejci and Richards (now and early on).

CreaseCrusader91
01-08-2014, 08:13 PM
For a comparison to Bergeron, or Stepan? I'd put Berg, ROR and Kesler in a group, and then Stepan in with guys like Krejci and Richards (now and early on).

Step and Kesler. Their numbers of PPG aren't far apart.

JOHN
01-08-2014, 08:14 PM
I think Stepan does a lot better with a guy like Gaborik, who has more than one speed and can be as much a playmaker as he is a scorer, than either Kreider or Nash. Kreider just goes at one speed and that's fantastic, but I don't think Stepan really feels comfortable trying to match or predict it. Nash is more predictable, but is also way less assertive and especially this year doesn't contribute to the play, in fact he kind of shy's away whenever possible. Stepan isn't good enough to define a line the way Datsyuk does, so if he doesn't have someone on his line who can define it and he more or less underscores it, he has consistency issues.

I don't think that's an indictment either. Some players just can't run a line. As dominant as Kreider is right now he's still a rookie, and he still looks to Stepan to run that line. He really can't.

Phil in Absentia
01-08-2014, 08:48 PM
Step and Kesler. Their numbers of PPG aren't far apart.

Eh. I'd have to look closer at it, but based on style of play, body, strength, face-offs, performance in the clutch and playoffs, I don't see it.

ThirtyONE
01-08-2014, 08:54 PM
Eh. I'd have to look closer at it, but based on style of play, body, strength, face-offs, performance in the clutch and playoffs, I don't see it.

Stepan was great in the playoffs last year.

Pete
01-08-2014, 09:02 PM
Stepan was great in the playoffs last year.

He was awful. 5 points in 12 games and a non factor against the Bruins.

Phil in Absentia
01-08-2014, 09:05 PM
Stepan was great in the playoffs last year.

Not really, but Pete already answered for me.

Also, he has 14 points in 37 playoff games. That's pathetic. Barely 0.4 P/G.

ThirtyONE
01-08-2014, 09:09 PM
He was awful. 5 points in 12 games and a non factor against the Bruins.

Oh. Nevermind haha. I guess I was thinking about something else.

Respecttheblue
01-08-2014, 09:46 PM
IMO a #2 center who could be a #1 center if he really got his shit together,

still too casual — sure you want to be relaxed, have loose hands not grip the stick — but he kinda flings a lot of his shots too casually, too obviously. THis is a game where quick hands and reactions make a huge difference, but too often he likes to wait, giving opponents more time to position themselves.
Also needs to shoot the puck with more focus and not so lackadaisically.
More hustle wouldn't hurt. Saw a little this game tonight in Chicago, as he created that play for Kreider (that Kreider shot into the goalie's chest.)

Myusername
01-09-2014, 12:49 AM
Because they're equally shitty skaters as well.

He's not even close to Bergeron's level yet. Ryan O'Reilly is though.

As shitty as Richards is, Stepan takes the cake by far

momentum
01-09-2014, 03:16 AM
Stepan was great in the playoffs last year.
That was Brassard

momentum
01-09-2014, 03:26 AM
Like Vodka says, Stepan is slow as hell and simply doesn't have the skill to make up for it, he's a horrible skater, he's not a great shooter, a good but not great passer, not a great stick handler, bad on face offs. Stepan has high hockey IQ, he's smart and that's where his strength lies, he's also a good not great passer. That's basically it.
Having good hockey IQ and being a good passer simply doesn't cut it for a real topline center.
I think when we look back at Stepan's career we will see that he indeed is the 50-60 point player that many of us see in him. Which at least in my book makes him a 2nd line center. Some years when used as a 1st line center due to team lacking a real top center with the icetime and linemates that comes with that he might pad his stats a bit and on a good year stretch it to 65 points.
Sorry in my book he's not a 1st line center, not even a 1b. He just doesn't have 1a or 1b skills.
I really like Stepan, I wish he would be that 65-70 point guy that some ppl see in him but last year was imo an anomaly.

One interesting thing I have to say though is how incredibly much better/faster he was skating last year compared to before last year and now. This was the HUGE difference with him IMO, this was what made him able to increase his output last year, compared to before and after last year he looked like he was on some kind of drug/blood doping or something last year, like he had 2-3 extra gears. If he can find that extra (or rather 5 extra) step that he had last year for some reason then maybe he could become more of a 1b center. Even his shot and poise was better last year, it was like he had grown big balls and carried himself on the ice like a top center, almost like he willed himself to be a player his skill doesn't allow him to be.
But this year its back to the regular old slow prodding Stepan again.

Pete
01-09-2014, 08:45 AM
He actually looked fast at points last night. Good ice?

Patrick Bateman
01-09-2014, 09:00 AM
Definitely did, he also set Nash and Kreider up with great feeds that they should have scored on

Phil in Absentia
01-09-2014, 09:31 AM
As shitty as Richards is, Stepan takes the cake by far

Takes the cake in comparison? That's like saying kidney cancer is better than liver cancer. Both suck.

momentum
01-09-2014, 10:01 AM
Who cares about Richards...he's gone at the end of the season and just biding his time...it's like he doesn't matter...I try to pretend his already gone from the team....because they are buying him out right...RIGHT??? pls?

So Nashty
01-09-2014, 12:42 PM
I really don't think he looks that bad out there. Hard to fault a guy for not scorin when the entire team is having issues.

Pete
01-09-2014, 12:43 PM
He's part of the reason the team is having issues.

So Nashty
01-09-2014, 01:43 PM
No doubt. But my concern is more with Nash, Callahan, Girardi, staal who are supposed to be the backbone of this team and are instead having their worst seasons to date.

Pete
01-09-2014, 01:45 PM
Eh, he's the #1 center. We are depending on him for scoring.

momentum
01-09-2014, 01:51 PM
No doubt. But my concern is more with Nash, Callahan, Girardi, staal who are supposed to be the backbone of this team and are instead having their worst seasons to date.

Stepan is part of that core group as well.

LyNX
01-09-2014, 03:31 PM
Personally Stepan has not regressed, he plays a passing game. He doesn't get points if no ones putting in his passes, but his play on the ice is great. He sees the ice well and makes space for others but the only thing different besides him causing less turn overs is a lower point production. Stepan has always said that he feels his game is at the top when he is playing physically and I think he has cooled off a little in that aspect although we all know he isn't much of a physical threat.

No anomaly here Pete, just the fact that he's leading horses to water and they aren't drinking. He's been involved in a lot of our two on ones and set up some great plays.

So Nashty
01-09-2014, 03:35 PM
Stepan is part of that core group as well.

Right but IMO he is not under achieving like they are. I duni maybe I just have a soft spot for the guy.

Pete
01-09-2014, 03:43 PM
Personally Stepan has not regressed, he plays a passing game. He doesn't get points if no ones putting in his passes, but his play on the ice is great. He sees the ice well and makes space for others but the only thing different besides him causing less turn overs is a lower point production. Stepan has always said that he feels his game is at the top when he is playing physically and I think he has cooled off a little in that aspect although we all know he isn't much of a physical threat.

No anomaly here Pete, just the fact that he's leading horses to water and they aren't drinking. He's been involved in a lot of our two on ones and set up some great plays.
Hard to say this when he scored 18 goals in 48 games last year, though.

LyNX
01-09-2014, 04:21 PM
Hard to say this when he scored 18 goals in 48 games last year, though.

I hate to say it but I personally feel this thread is more sensationalist than anything. When you play sports you know that sometimes you make the right plays but you just don't get results. I wouldn't say Stepan is playing to the octane he was last half season but take it for what it is... A small sample size, and the Rangers as a whole for a while were finding it hard to put the puck in the net. So that's especially going to hurt the player who gets a majority of his points from assists.

It's just strange that with all the players slumping so hard this season suddenly the player to look at is Stepan who has been playing good hockey. His play looks OK, nothing special but hes playing well, hes doing better on face-offs, he's just not getting the results.

Pete
01-09-2014, 04:40 PM
I hate to say it but I personally feel this thread is more sensationalist than anything. When you play sports you know that sometimes you make the right plays but you just don't get results. I wouldn't say Stepan is playing to the octane he was last half season but take it for what it is... A small sample size, and the Rangers as a whole for a while were finding it hard to put the puck in the net. So that's especially going to hurt the player who gets a majority of his points from assists.

It's just strange that with all the players slumping so hard this season suddenly the player to look at is Stepan who has been playing good hockey. His play looks OK, nothing special but hes playing well, hes doing better on face-offs, he's just not getting the results.

Stepan hasn't been playing good hockey. He's been struggling. You can see it with his stats and with your eyeballs. He's simply not the player he was last year.

Goals down.
Assists down.
Shooting percentage way down.
-4 from a +25 last year.

This is all significant and far from "sensationalist". Every player has been railed here, with the exception of McD, Stralman, Zuke and Talbot. Not sure why you think Stepan is being singled out. I know you're a big Wisconsin guy, so I don't expect you to be on board with a Stepan critique, but this thread is anything but targeting one particular guy as THE reason the team is struggling or sensationalist.

He's simply not taken the next step after a strong year, and that's VERY relevant if he throws up 75-80 pint next year, in a contract year.

Puck Head
01-09-2014, 04:51 PM
Hard to say this when he scored 18 goals in 48 games last year, though.

Yes, and more importantly as you pointed out.
He simply doesn't "look" like the same player. I can give a pass on statistics at times, but Stepan just doesn't look as involved in any zone.

But, must admit seemed to have some jump in all 3 zones last night.

Pete
01-09-2014, 04:55 PM
Yes, and more importantly as you pointed out.
He simply doesn't "look" like the same player. I can give a pass on statistics at times, but Stepan just doesn't look as involved in any zone.

But, must admit seemed to have some jump in all 3 zones last night.

Agree, he was quick on pucks all night, looked a bit more confident with the puck as well.

LyNX
01-09-2014, 05:14 PM
Stepan hasn't been playing good hockey. He's been struggling. You can see it with his stats and with your eyeballs. He's simply not the player he was last year.

Goals down.
Assists down.
Shooting percentage way down.
-4 from a +25 last year.

This is all significant and far from "sensationalist". Every player has been railed here, with the exception of McD, Stralman, Zuke and Talbot. Not sure why you think Stepan is being singled out. I know you're a big Wisconsin guy, so I don't expect you to be on board with a Stepan critique, but this thread is anything but targeting one particular guy as THE reason the team is struggling or sensationalist.

He's simply not taken the next step after a strong year, and that's VERY relevant if he throws up 75-80 pint next year, in a contract year.

Wisconsin or not, I would defend any player where a team is slumping and a player who is doing fine on the ice is being given a thread title of "The Regression of ...". Your complaining about a player who is third in points and assists on the team (Cool), who just came off a contract year and is not playing with the same fire (Standard), while the team is struggling, and finding itself in a system. I'm not sure whats hard to believe, it just seems like a consistent scenario. And then you compare the consistent scenario to the "control" of a small sample size of him doing really well!

He's still making a lot of great passes on two on ones, through the neutral zone and on the cycle and is good for causing a turnover from time to time. He hit a rough patch in Dec only scoring 6 points in 14 games but he passes my "eyeball check" with good play on the ice and setting people up in open space.

Pete
01-09-2014, 05:19 PM
Wisconsin or not, I would defend any player where a team is slumping and a player who is doing fine on the ice is being given a thread title of "The Regression of ...". Your complaining about a player who is third in points and assists on the team (Cool), who just came off a contract year and is not playing with the same fire (Standard), while the team is struggling, and finding itself in a system. I'm not sure whats hard to believe, it just seems like a consistent scenario. And then you compare the consistent scenario to the "control" of a small sample size of him doing really well!

He's still making a lot of great passes on two on ones, through the neutral zone and on the cycle and is good for causing a turnover from time to time. He hit a rough patch in Dec only scoring 6 points in 14 games but he passes my "eyeball check" with good play on the ice and setting people up in open space.

I mean if you think he's playing good hockey, I'm not sure what else to say. I don't think he's doing fine, at all.

Third on points on a team 27th in scoring is being a one eyed man in the land of the blind. There are players who are struggling, and players who are not.

To say the whole team is struggling is wrong. Kreider, a player on Stepan's line, seems to be doing alright for himself. Zuccarello, another player who shared time with Stepan, seems to be doing well. BOth are playing light years better hockey than Stepan is.

I don't know why you think a drop off after a contract year is OK, standard or not. That's how you wind up with Paul Stastny. No thanks.

LyNX
01-09-2014, 05:26 PM
Age 20
.54 PPG = 44pt season

Age 21
.62 PPG = 50pt season

Age 22
.91 PPG = 75pts season

Age 23
Now, I didn't expect him to improve on a 75pt season, but expected him to improve on his production at age 21 the year before.
We were seeing a very young players with a steady upward trend, and he seems to have gone backwards this year.
Hopefully he picks it up 2nd 1/2.

But you can throw away what type of "career" player he is....he was 20, 21, and 22. That tells us nothing.

@Pete. Pretty good way to put it on a numerical standpoint so i'll use it. Considering we are extending his current streak over the season hes on pace for 12 goals 34 assists and 46 points. So worse case scenario if he plays to his current stats for the entire year he will statistically be a 23 year old 2nd line center. What is the problem here exactly?


I mean if you think he's playing good hockey, I'm not sure what else to say. I don't think he's doing fine, at all.

Third on points on a team 27th in scoring is being a one eyed man in the land of the blind. There are players who are struggling, and players who are not.

To say the whole team is struggling is wrong. Kreider, a player on Stepan's line, seems to be doing alright for himself. Zuccarello, another player who shared time with Stepan, seems to be doing well. BOth are playing light years better hockey than Stepan is.

I don't know why you think a drop off after a contract year is OK, standard or not. That's how you wind up with Paul Stastny. No thanks.

I just had a post mentioning those two are playing well. So again he's struggling and he's third on the team in scoring.

It seems you might have to temper your expectations on our projected 1st/2nd line center... Panning out to being a 2nd line center by the age of 23. I would like to see better play out of him no doubt, but he's the least of the concerns considering. Do you think our leading scorer from last season a 22 year old is not playing to the best of his abilities? Yes I agree. Do you think it's a big concern? I think their are bigger fish but I am still interested in seeing him elevate his play regardless of the scenario.

Puck Head
01-09-2014, 05:57 PM
Agree, he was quick on pucks all night, looked a bit more confident with the puck as well.

I swear it's as simple as this.
Doesn't matter if it's a 10 year old squirt, or 10 year NHL vet.

Move your feet and good things happen.
Nash was prime example last night.

Pete
01-09-2014, 05:58 PM
@Pete. Pretty good way to put it on a numerical standpoint so i'll use it. Considering we are extending his current streak over the season hes on pace for 12 goals 34 assists and 46 points. So worse case scenario if he plays to his current stats for the entire year he will statistically be a 23 year old 2nd line center. What is the problem here exactly?



I just had a post mentioning those two are playing well. So again he's struggling and he's third on the team in scoring.

It seems you might have to temper your expectations on our projected 1st/2nd line center... Panning out to being a 2nd line center by the age of 23. I would like to see better play out of him no doubt, but he's the least of the concerns considering. Do you think our leading scorer from last season a 22 year old is not playing to the best of his abilities? Yes I agree. Do you think it's a big concern? I think their are bigger fish but I am still interested in seeing him elevate his play regardless of the scenario.

Doesn't seem like you're fully reading my posts. Read the OP. I'm asking if people feel he's last year's "no question" first line center, or the second line center he's otherwise produced like? You're sort of acting like calling him a second line center is an insult.

Again, read my other posts. Concern is, if he throws up 75-80 points next year. Do you pay him like a P/G player? Or like the 55 point player he's otherwise been.

Guys only excelling in contract years are an issue.

NYR2711
01-09-2014, 06:03 PM
I honestly think he can be called a first line center. He isn't producing like one should this year, but he is a smart player and is smart with the puck and provides a lot like a top line center would. He is a good set up guy and has played well with. Nash and Kreider. I think his poor production is just an indication of the entire teams poor play. Honestly, I don't see him not able to do anything any other top line center can't do. I just think he, like the rest I the team are just having a bad year and trying to learn and work a system that just doesn't have the right players yet.

Pete
01-09-2014, 06:05 PM
I honestly think he can be called a first line center. He isn't producing like one should this year, but he is a smart player and is smart with the puck and provides a lot like a top line center would. He is a good set up guy and has played well with. Nash and Kreider. I think his poor production is just an indication of the entire teams poor play. Honestly, I don't see him not able to do anything any other top line center can't do. I just think he, like the rest I the team are just having a bad year and trying to learn and work a system that just doesn't have the right players yet.

Fair points. Good post.

NYRangers723
01-10-2014, 01:45 PM
Really disappointed by Stepan this year. My biggest issue is that many times he seems invisible whihc wasnt the cas in previosu years. also his passing has been pretty inconsistent. he will never be a fats skater which is ok but he isnt making smart plays. Both kreider and nash have to create for themsleves because stepan hanst been doing it like he did last year. maybe he is just having a bad year but if he ever gets back to playing like he did last year then our first line would be tough to stop every night.

NYR2711
01-10-2014, 02:44 PM
Really disappointed by Stepan this year. My biggest issue is that many times he seems invisible whihc wasnt the cas in previosu years. also his passing has been pretty inconsistent. he will never be a fats skater which is ok but he isnt making smart plays. Both kreider and nash have to create for themsleves because stepan hanst been doing it like he did last year. maybe he is just having a bad year but if he ever gets back to playing like he did last year then our first line would be tough to stop every night.

I have to disagree, last game alone he as setting them up all game. He has been setting people up, just no one on the team is finishing.

NYRangers723
01-10-2014, 03:04 PM
I have to disagree, last game alone he as setting them up all game. He has been setting people up, just no one on the team is finishing.


Look i like Stepan im just being honest. Last game he looked better but most Ranger fans would admit he is having a bad year. I cant make an excuse about the team is the cause playing bad because Kreider(rookie) and Zucc(add on player at teh strat of the year} have been tremedous despite the teams struggles

Pete
01-10-2014, 03:09 PM
I have to disagree, last game alone he as setting them up all game. He has been setting people up, just no one on the team is finishing.

Last game was his best game in awhile, he should have had 2-3 assists of Nash and Kreider were finishing.

momentum
01-10-2014, 03:21 PM
I honestly think he can be called a first line center. He isn't producing like one should this year, but he is a smart player and is smart with the puck and provides a lot like a top line center would. He is a good set up guy and has played well with. Nash and Kreider. I think his poor production is just an indication of the entire teams poor play. Honestly, I don't see him not able to do anything any other top line center can't do. I just think he, like the rest I the team are just having a bad year and trying to learn and work a system that just doesn't have the right players yet.

The least thing Stepan could do is get better at face offs because he sucks at it right now, it's a very important skill especially for a topline center and it's a skill you can actually PRACTICE and get good at, just takes a lot of time and effort and it isn't fun. I remember Sundin coming into the league as a RW never taking face offs, over the years as he morphed into a topline center among the things he worked on with his game was face offs and eventually he became awesome at face offs just due to diligent practice. Another thing was his shot, I remember an interview where he talked about noticing how no one was using the back hand in hockey anymore and he started practicing it constantly and ended up with one of the best backhands in the league...
My point is this kind of stuff, shot, faceoffs....this stuff you actually CAN practice to an extent...but you have to put the effort in.

Stepan doesn't have many natural gifts so to speak as a hockey player, he's not super big or super strong or super fast or has a great shot or great hands. He has his hockey iq and he can make a decent pass when on his game. IF a player like him is going to work as a topline center he needs to be one of those guys who works harder than anyone else on all aspects of his game that can be worked on to improve. He needs to do this to make up for his lack of natural talent. Thing is I'm not sure Stepan has this kind of work ethic but maybe is happy to just rely on his smarts and passing...but it's just not enough.

NYRangers723
01-10-2014, 03:21 PM
Last game was his best game in awhile, he should have had 2-3 assists of Nash and Kreider were finishing.


He played better but to be fair it was 1 game. he needs to have a good stretch which he plays well which he hasnt had yet. I agree Nash had like 2 breakaways which he should ahve finished at least 1

Pete
01-10-2014, 03:27 PM
Of course, I agree. Tonight is a big game for Steps, Staal and Hank, IMO.

NYRangers723
01-10-2014, 03:29 PM
Of course, I agree. Tonight is a big game for Steps, Staal and Hank, IMO.


Yeah i agree. I was referencing the other poster who said that stepan was struggling because the team was struggling whihc isnt true. Macdonough Zucc and Kreider have all played consistently well despie the teams struggles. Stepan is one of my favorite players BUT he has to play well for a good stretch and if he does the sky is the limit for this team

ThirtyONE
01-10-2014, 05:38 PM
Yeah i agree. I was referencing the other poster who said that stepan was struggling because the team was struggling whihc isnt true. Macdonough Zucc and Kreider have all played consistently well despie the teams struggles. Stepan is one of my favorite players BUT he has to play well for a good stretch and if he does the sky is the limit for this team

well, I don't think you'll find many people who agree with this. this team is severely limited whether Step is playing well or not. The fate of this team does not rest on his shoulders.

Pete
01-10-2014, 05:39 PM
Well, if Steps plays better and gets Nash going...There's certainly something there.

Puck Head
01-10-2014, 05:56 PM
Well, if Steps plays better and gets Nash going...There's certainly something there.

Agreed
If Stepan was playing like last year
Nash played at 80% of what he's capable
And Kreider keeps going

That's a first line we can wrap our head around

ThirtyONE
01-10-2014, 06:04 PM
Agreed
If Stepan was playing like last year
Nash played at 80% of what he's capable
And Kreider keeps going

That's a first line we can wrap our head around

Okay... but that's three if's. And then that's only the first line. Granted, the effort of the other lines has been better as of late, but even if the first line is firing on all cylinders, the rest of the roster isn't much to get excited about or something to be counted on consistently. Even if Stepan was Ryan Getzlaf, this team would still be pretty mediocre right now.

Pete
01-10-2014, 06:20 PM
Gotta start somewhere.

ZebraDude
01-10-2014, 06:31 PM
Stepan needs to grow a pair and start playing with intent, if you know what I mean. Desire, drive, purpose. If he can, Nash would be that much more effective and better. Nash is carrying the mail too much, IMO. Stepan has been a fuckin cheerleader for too many shifts.

momentum
01-10-2014, 07:16 PM
Stepan needs to grow a pair and start playing with intent, if you know what I mean. Desire, drive, purpose. If he can, Nash would be that much more effective and better. Nash is carrying the mail too much, IMO. Stepan has been a fuckin cheerleader for too many shifts.
Agree 100 percent and this is what I was talking about regarding Stepan last year...he played with intensity and played HARD, you could see the effort on his face every shift, he's not a good skater but he willed himself to reach the pucks first etc. That is the Stepan we need. Not the one coasting around looking for a play.

Parsley
01-10-2014, 09:36 PM
This guy is pissing me off tonight.

Pete
01-10-2014, 09:56 PM
He was getting chances. That's good.

Captain Clutch
01-10-2014, 10:00 PM
He'll get his chances and get better. Of year, but it's been kind of off for this whole team. Hopefully he gets a lucky one in the net and his linemates start finishign more so he can get those points.

NYRangers723
01-10-2014, 10:12 PM
He was getting chances. That's good.

He misses more wide open net shots then anyone. The best thing for him might be to sit out 1 game. It worked for Pouliat and Zucc

Respecttheblue
01-10-2014, 10:48 PM
Agreed
If Stepan was playing like last year
Nash played at 80% of what he's capable
And Kreider keeps going

That's a first line we can wrap our head around

Nice to see Richards and Callahan start finding some chemistry, too.

!br-avery!
01-11-2014, 08:49 PM
Hoe many games till Stepans next goal?
Hope this jinx works and he scores tomorrow

Parsley
01-12-2014, 09:32 PM
This guy is pissing me off tonight.

..

Pete
01-12-2014, 09:41 PM
He still sucks. :D

NYRangers723
01-12-2014, 09:47 PM
He still sucks. :D


He doesnt suck BUT we know he is far more capable of playing better than he is right now. Last Year he was arguably our most depenable forward because of his smart play with the puck and his playmaking. That hanst happened this year. Still 35 games to go so hopefully the Olympics get him going

Parsley
01-12-2014, 10:12 PM
He looks like a veteran AHL'er right now. Gittery as fuck and making ways too many bad decisions

Morphinity
01-12-2014, 10:16 PM
Veteran AHL'er. Really?

He looks fine. He's going through a rough patch, but his passing is still there which if that wasn't there I'd be truly worried.

Vodka Drunkenski
01-12-2014, 10:16 PM
Can't believe he held out. Wish we kept Ani instead.

NYRangers723
01-12-2014, 10:18 PM
Veteran AHL'er. Really?

He looks fine. He's going through a rough patch, but his passing is still there which if that wasn't there I'd be truly worried.


Been a long rough patch but im confident he will somehow get out of it. However his passing hasnt been like it was last year.

Parsley
01-12-2014, 10:22 PM
This thread is about his regression. And he has regressed. He held out for more money and he has underachieved since.

Not saying he can't turn it around but he has been a disappointment.

Captain Clutch
01-12-2014, 10:23 PM
Looked better today

NYRangers723
01-12-2014, 10:26 PM
Looked better today

The problem is that he hasnt had a great stretch of games. Mostly secondary assists which isnt terrible but he was expected to be more visible and productive

Respecttheblue
01-12-2014, 10:45 PM
I may have been irritated with his play at times this season, but I'm not hellishly concerned. I think he brought it on himself and for that he is accountable, but I think he'll play himself out of it. Who knows he might learn something from it — in particular that success at this level is just not a given for anyone — and become a better player.

Parsley
01-12-2014, 11:11 PM
I'm shocked he's ranked 4th on our player interactive poll.

He should be dropped to around 10th.....minimum.

Parsley
01-14-2014, 08:31 PM
This guy is pissing me off tonight.


..

...

Pete
01-14-2014, 08:55 PM
Try pissing on him for a change, maybe it will change his luck.

Morphinity
01-14-2014, 09:12 PM
I think Stepan pissed on Pars because he bumps this thread every single night.

Parsley
01-14-2014, 09:23 PM
This guy is pissing me off tonight.


..


I think Stepan pissed on Pars because he bumps this thread every single night.


I will bump it til he does something positive. Check back in a few weeks. :)

BlueJay
01-14-2014, 09:39 PM
Flat out sucks right now.

Parsley
01-14-2014, 09:40 PM
Flat out sucks right now.


:word:

He is single-handedly destroying the first line

phillyb™
01-14-2014, 09:46 PM
remember when torts put richards on the 4th line...
i wouldn't mind seeing step go to the third.
the way richards has been playing (6 game point streak...at least he's producing SOMETHING) and the way brass has been playing, there's no reason not to (in my stupid, humble opinion).

Vodka Drunkenski
01-14-2014, 10:19 PM
JT Miller could offer more at this point. Still can't believe this bum sat out for more money. Dubinsky II

NYRangers723
01-14-2014, 10:22 PM
Time for stepan to be a healthy scratch. Hey it worked well for Zucc and Pouliat. I'd rather have brassard between our 2 scorers. hell at this point miller would do a better job with his speed and passing

Parsley
01-14-2014, 10:30 PM
I'm glad a few other people here see how much he sucks lately. He belongs nowhere near the first line right now.

NYRangers723
01-14-2014, 10:51 PM
I'm glad a few other people here see how much he sucks lately. He belongs nowhere near the first line right now.

I've been saying it all year. even his hat trick game wasnt a strong overall game. His passing hasnt impressed me a bit either

pellman800
01-14-2014, 10:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RprMPis226k

NYRangers723
01-14-2014, 10:57 PM
Kinda reminds me of Dubinsky who held oout until he got more money than he shoould have gotten and ended up with 10 goals and like 24 assists in 2011

phillyb™
01-14-2014, 11:01 PM
dare i say keep cally and girardi...
package stepan and someone for a real first line center?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

NYRangers723
01-14-2014, 11:08 PM
dare i say keep cally and girardi...
package stepan and someone for a real first line center?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Imagine if we had a C who could skate and be a playmaker. Nash and kreider would score even on off nights

pellman800
01-14-2014, 11:25 PM
We may go on good stretches and things like that from time to time, but there is a LONG way to go before we're a contender. And in my opinion that means getting to the point where Stepan and Callahan are NOT considered to be our go to guys on offense. They simply aren't talented enough. Both are third-liners at best.

phillyb™
01-14-2014, 11:26 PM
BUT DUDE
THEY BOTH MADE THE OLYMPIC TEAM!
trollololol

momentum
01-14-2014, 11:29 PM
:word:

He is single-handedly destroying the first line

He's not a first liner so...

Niko
01-14-2014, 11:49 PM
I was at the last two games. Derek has looked like absolute crap and when you watch him skate behind the plays, he looks so unmotivated and drawn. Is he nursing any injury?

Parsley
01-15-2014, 12:32 AM
He's not a first liner so...

He was projected as their first line center this year, no?

It's obvious he can't live up to expectations.....atleast not at this point.

Pete
01-15-2014, 07:00 AM
He's 23.

He's been a disaster this year.

But even as the author of this thread, I'm not ready to say that this is all he is.

Parsley
01-15-2014, 07:37 AM
He's 23.

He's been a disaster this year.

But even as the author of this thread, I'm not ready to say that this is all he is.

And neither am I. But in the present, he's underachieving for sure.

Pete
01-15-2014, 08:05 AM
Of course, hence the thread LOL.

When it's said and done, I think he has a few years in the high 60 low 70 range, and maybe flirts with 80 one or two times.

Patrick Bateman
01-15-2014, 08:18 AM
Most of these guys who rely on their hockey IQ to play the game, rather a set of physical skills take longer to to reach their true peak as well. I look at guys like Marc Savard, and Mike Ribeiro as examples.

Ba Ba Bluey
01-15-2014, 02:08 PM
I was at the last two games. Derek has looked like absolute crap and when you watch him skate behind the plays, he looks so unmotivated and drawn. Is he nursing any injury?

X-rays appear to be negative...

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19cib1nffa336jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

!br-avery!
01-15-2014, 02:09 PM
maybe his date of birth is wrong
He's playing like hes 33 not 23,the way he skates and moves out there

RichieNextel305
01-15-2014, 04:33 PM
He's been very deliberate this year. He telegraphs his passes. It takes him 2 days to even wind up and unload a fucking wrist shot, and he telegraphs where thats going.

lefty9
01-15-2014, 07:12 PM
He isn't playing as we'll so far this season, but some of you are blowing this way out of porportion, AV should move him down to the third line, that might jump start him to play better

rvbcaboose
01-16-2014, 12:41 AM
Derek Stepan: poster child of bridge contracts.

Pete
01-16-2014, 03:58 PM
Right on cue, Larry.

http://nypost.com/2014/01/16/rangers-arent-getting-enough-scoring-from-derek-stepan/

!br-avery!
01-16-2014, 03:59 PM
4 goals in 47 games if you take away his hat-trick game and he wasn't even that good that game
Hope he can pick it up and start doing it soon

Parsley
02-07-2014, 08:51 PM
Hello thread!

I missed you.

rmc51
02-07-2014, 10:01 PM
This is why Sather told him he wasnt getting a big contract. Prove your worth over a couple of full seasons. Right now Stepan isnt doing anything to help him get a big deal.

McDougalfaschnitzer
02-07-2014, 10:05 PM
At this point all we can hope for is some good old fashion patriotism to fan his fire and lead into some better post-olympic play.

RichieNextel305
02-07-2014, 10:08 PM
He looks slower than almost every other forward on the team right now. Of all the people who made the Olympics, I'm least happy about him going. Definitely think he could have used the rest here.

Parsley
02-07-2014, 10:14 PM
He had a nice 5 game stretch in January.....was hoping it got him going. Guess it didn't.

Morphinity
02-08-2014, 12:27 AM
Oh, you guys are back. Glad there's an Olympic break.

Mike
02-08-2014, 12:31 AM
Another puzzling player.

dome
02-08-2014, 01:59 AM
and the Brad Richards award goes to....

Cash or Czech?
02-08-2014, 02:02 AM
Yet Stepan is third on the team in points...somehow. The entire first line is hot and cold. When they're hot, they're on freakin' fire and putting points up like crazy. When they go cold, it's noticeable but our depth has been there. We have to hope that a) they start producing consistently which would be the next developmental step for Kreider and Stepan and b) they get hot at the right time this year.

dome
02-08-2014, 02:14 AM
I'd trade in a average regular season for a great finish/playoffs.

Conn Smythe > Art Ross

Pete
02-08-2014, 07:19 AM
Yet Stepan is third on the team in points...somehow. The entire first line is hot and cold. When they're hot, they're on freakin' fire and putting points up like crazy. When they go cold, it's noticeable but our depth has been there. We have to hope that a) they start producing consistently which would be the next developmental step for Kreider and Stepan and b) they get hot at the right time this year.

What do your eyeballs tell you? Is he playing well?

josh
02-08-2014, 07:43 AM
Kreider, Nash and his PP unit have slowed down. His secondary assists are not coming as frequently as last 2 months.

Cash or Czech?
02-08-2014, 11:45 AM
What do your eyeballs tell you? Is he playing well?

Lately? Of course not. He's playing like crap, as is Nash. Kreider is at least noticeable but the other two are nowhere to be seen. Still doesn't mean that my point of the entire line being hot and cold is wrong. The next step in development for Stepan and Kreider are to produce goals and points consistently. They're guys in their early 20s. They haven't topped out at their potential yet and are going to improve their games. Obviously for Stepan this is less acceptable and we were a little disillusioned based on his play for the half season last year, but he will heat up again and start helping to put the puck in the back of the net.

Respecttheblue
02-08-2014, 03:56 PM
He looks slower than almost every other forward on the team right now. Of all the people who made the Olympics, I'm least happy about him going. Definitely think he could have used the rest here.

Rest? ;) it's not like he's putting out that much of an effort on the ice to recover from. Oy.
Maybe he misses Torts' bag skates? I realize he's a hockey IQ player (except for the telegraphed passes) but he's skating to dang slow to catch up with his IQ if that's true. #JustABitFrustrated.
Well there's time for him to pick it up, and the playoffs are when it'll really matter.

Slobberknocker
02-13-2014, 10:31 AM
He looks slower than almost every other forward on the team right now. Of all the people who made the Olympics, I'm least happy about him going. Definitely think he could have used the rest here.

seems like your wish has come true. he's a black ace over there and will only see time if theirs an injury. hopefully it lights a fire under his ass.

ZebraDude
02-15-2014, 06:45 PM
He should have sat out the Olympics and instead taken a power skating course. The guy must have the shortest and weakest stride in the NHL.

Morphinity
02-15-2014, 06:56 PM
Hey, does anyone else think Stepan can't skate? The guy's stride is so weak.

Pete
02-15-2014, 07:08 PM
I don't think it's been mentioned, but the weakest part of his game is his skating.

MacTruck
02-16-2014, 09:07 AM
Stepan looks engaged in this Olympic game. Let's face it...he's going to be a 50-60 point, 2nd line, two way center. He was exceptional last season and our team's best forward at 23 years old. Strengths: Creativity, vision, shot power, positional D. Weakenesses: Acceleration, finishing under pressure, contract negotiations.

Blue Heaven
02-16-2014, 09:09 AM
Stepan looks engaged in this Olympic game. Let's face it...he's going to be a 50-60 point, 2nd line, two way center. He was exceptional last season and our team's best forward at 23 years old.

but his skating is a hinderance

Pete
02-16-2014, 09:12 AM
Stepan looks engaged in this Olympic game. Let's face it...he's going to be a 50-60 point, 2nd line, two way center. He was exceptional last season and our team's best forward at 23 years old.

I'd argue Nash was the team's best forward during the regular season, Brassard in the playoffs when Stepan disappeared off the map.

Puck Head
02-16-2014, 12:31 PM
I'd argue Nash was the team's best forward during the regular season, Brassard in the playoffs when Stepan disappeared off the map.

I'd also say Nash was the better forward last season with Step's 2nd.
Both disappeared in playoffs

Nicky Fotiu
02-16-2014, 05:52 PM
Stepan's production is almost identical in seasons 1, 2, and 4. Its only season 3 that his numbers are better.

He is a good center but not a great center. I think some people may have got carried away with those Bryan Trottier comparisons. I think he is a 50-70 point guy on average. No better. No worse

Phil in Absentia
02-16-2014, 06:06 PM
Stepan's production is almost identical in seasons 1, 2, and 4. Its only season 3 that his numbers are better.

He is a good center but not a great center. I think some people may have got carried away with those Bryan Trottier comparisons. I think he is a 50-70 point guy on average. No better. No worse

I'm not even sure 70 is all that within reach. Depends on the quality of line mates he'll have when he's 25-27 IMO.

He's Matt Stajan to me. Just a quality player who isn't going to wow you with anything he does. Just solid 50-60 point production from a second-line center. At best I think you've got a poor man's Brad Richards.

Dunny
02-16-2014, 06:20 PM
Better production than Stajan, but I get your point. Remember, Stajan was almost out of the league not long ago.

My biggest problem with Stepan is when you have to match him against other first line C's that are phycially imposing. He simply can't match size, speed and strength with anyone.

Phil in Absentia
02-16-2014, 06:27 PM
Better production than Stajan, but I get your point. Remember, Stajan was almost out of the league not long ago.

My biggest problem with Stepan is when you have to match him against other first line C's that are phycially imposing. He simply can't match size, speed and strength with anyone.

Oh, for sure. I think Stepan is better than Stajan, but if I'm comparing players, I feel Stepan is a lot closer to Stajan than he is to some of the other guys people like to pit him against.

Krejci I think is another comparable.

Puck Head
02-16-2014, 11:07 PM
Stepan's production is almost identical in seasons 1, 2, and 4. Its only season 3 that his numbers are better.

He is a good center but not a great center. I think some people may have got carried away with those Bryan Trottier comparisons. I think he is a 50-70 point guy on average. No better. No worse

I understand your point but simply don't agree.
He progress went from .54 PPG, to .62 PPG, then jumped up to .91 PPG last season. Now he sits back at .58 or so.
Ok, last years PPG was thrown off by the short season...but it's MUCH more then points.

Stepan exerted himself upon opposition. He was one of the better defensive centerman in the league last season. Plus many more things...
And we just aren't seeing that out of him this season. He's slower, not initiating, and not bearing down.

Nicky Fotiu
02-17-2014, 01:17 PM
I understand your point but simply don't agree.
He progress went from .54 PPG, to .62 PPG, then jumped up to .91 PPG last season. Now he sits back at .58 or so.
Ok, last years PPG was thrown off by the short season...but it's MUCH more then points.

Stepan exerted himself upon opposition. He was one of the better defensive centerman in the league last season. Plus many more things...
And we just aren't seeing that out of him this season. He's slower, not initiating, and not bearing down.

While you say you do not agree you pretty much reinforced my point. Going by your stats he had ppg of .54-.62-.91-.58. Season 3 was the exception at .91 Now using your stats over a full 82 game season you get a low of 45 points and a high of 74 points. Is that dramatically different than when I said he was a 50-70 point scorer on average?

Pete
02-17-2014, 01:22 PM
There's a huge difference in 50 and 70 points, though.

Nicky Fotiu
02-17-2014, 01:32 PM
There's a huge difference in 50 and 70 points, though.

I could see that point of view but even all star players like Gabs, Richards, St. Louis, etc have 20 point swings in their production. I was just pointing out what I felt were his minimum and maximums for us to expect. Good but not great.

Pete
02-17-2014, 01:45 PM
Ah, gotcha.

RichieNextel305
02-17-2014, 01:50 PM
I don't think it's been mentioned, but the weakest part of his game is his skating.

I feel that it's been mentioned a bunch over the past few years. And it's accurate. His skating is pretty lousy.

Pete
02-17-2014, 01:54 PM
The sarcasm escaped you.

Morphinity
02-17-2014, 01:56 PM
Guys, he can't skate. He really needs to work on that.

Drew a Penalty
02-17-2014, 02:01 PM
Where'd he learn to skate? I want to go there.

AmericanJesus
02-17-2014, 02:03 PM
I haven't been around much lately, but is it me, or has Stepan's skating been lousy?

ZebraDude
02-17-2014, 04:36 PM
I haven't been around much lately, but is it me, or has Stepan's skating been lousy?

Hmmm, I never noticed that. I wish someone would have pointed it out earlier.

TwoMinutesForNothing
02-17-2014, 07:27 PM
Lol I found it funny how Pierre brought up during the last game that his father managed an ice rink when he was growing up and he had keys to the rink so it gave him an advantage. All that and he still can't skate lol. What the hell did he do at the ice rink all of that time?

Pete
02-17-2014, 07:36 PM
Practice looking directly at where he would pass the puck.

Cindy Crosby
03-03-2014, 10:49 PM
not sure if there is a thread about him but What the hell is wrong with this kid? he is AWFUL

im curious to see what everyone on here thinks of him. cant skate, shoot, take a pass, give a pass. he looks as lost as ive ever seen him or anyone out there.

Phil in Absentia
03-03-2014, 10:58 PM
I hear he can't skate.

EdMc28
03-03-2014, 11:15 PM
Hows his hair? Oh wait a minute he's balding.

Morphinity
03-03-2014, 11:32 PM
I've heard a bunch of people say he can't skate, but I'm not so sure. I'll have to take a closer look.

RichieNextel305
03-03-2014, 11:34 PM
In all honesty, he has been absolutely terrible this season.

Pete
03-04-2014, 08:01 AM
Because his skating is sub-par. And he's fat.

momentum
03-04-2014, 08:34 AM
I think the Stajan comparison is actually right on, VERY similar players, decently talented players and good team players, nice well liked guys, at their best they are 2nd line players who can put up around 50-60 points in a good season. Both players who are not great at any one things but decent all around without any wow factor. These kind of players can be VERY valuable for depth as long as they are NOT the player you rely on, they can't be your franchise player. No this needs to be a guy who you can sign for a decent contract who puts up decent numbers and provide solid good depth.
Stepan is touted too highly many times I Ranger land...much like Stajan once was in Leaf land.
We have to come to the realization though that these are not go to guys. They are depth guys.

RichieNextel305
03-04-2014, 08:38 AM
Rumor is Vancouver wants a young center to replace Kesler, a prospect and a 3rd Rounder.

Stepan, forward prospect and a 3rd? I actually would possibly consider that.

Morphinity
03-04-2014, 10:40 AM
Stepan is a solid 2nd line center and can play 1st line in a pinch. It's becoming clear that is his role. I'm fine with that. Our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line centers are basically the same in terms of production.

Phil in Absentia
03-04-2014, 10:41 AM
Stepan is a solid 2nd line center and can play 1st line in a pinch. It's becoming clear that is his role. I'm fine with that. Our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line centers are basically the same in terms of production.

Which, you could argue, would give cause to trading one of them (assuming Richards isn't a buyout, which I'm still not certain of).

Pete
03-04-2014, 10:43 AM
Which, you could argue, would give cause to trading one of them (assuming Richards isn't a buyout, which I'm still not certain of).

Why would you trade any of them, unless you're significantly upgrading the center position in the process?

Phil in Absentia
03-04-2014, 10:46 AM
Why would you trade any of them, unless you're significantly upgrading the center position in the process?

Define "significantly", I'd say.

I don't think you're winning with this team, so if you can get pieces that get you closer to winning as soon as possible, would that be considered "significant"? I think it would. Both MSL and Kesler, for example, I put into that mix. Long-term, big picture, yes, it's a short-sale, but a short-sale for as quick a turnaround as possible.

Pete
03-04-2014, 10:49 AM
Define "significantly", I'd say.

I don't think you're winning with this team, so if you can get pieces that get you closer to winning as soon as possible, would that be considered "significant"? I think it would. Both MSL and Kesler, for example, I put into that mix. Long-term, big picture, yes, it's a short-sale, but a short-sale for as quick a turnaround as possible.

Kesler is a significant upgrade over Stepan in terms of what he can handle on the ice, but you're not getting more points. If your centers are giving you 200 points (60 x 3 then 20 for the 4th liner), you can't flip one for MSL or something, and add Lindberg. That's not a wise move, IMO. Stepan + for Kesler, and maybe not even plus. They are getting younger and cost certain player who JT loves.

Phil in Absentia
03-04-2014, 10:51 AM
Kesler is a significant upgrade over Stepan in terms of what he can handle on the ice, but you're not getting more points. If your centers are giving you 200 points (60 x 3 then 20 for the 4th liner), you can't flip one for MSL or something, and add Lindberg. That's not a wise move, IMO. Stepan + for Kesler, and maybe not even plus. They are getting younger and cost certain player who JT loves.

Which is an upgrade, I'd argue. I don't know if it's "significant", but I'm not really subscribing to the theory that any deal for any of our centers needs to be. I just think it needs to fit a need, same as I feel with the whole Callahan/MSL debacle.

I think Kesler gives the Rangers a lot of what they need to be a better team in the playoffs, which is an upgrade, and none of those things are ever going to come from Stepan no matter how long they hang onto him.

Pete
03-04-2014, 11:09 AM
Which is an upgrade, I'd argue. I don't know if it's "significant", but I'm not really subscribing to the theory that any deal for any of our centers needs to be. I just think it needs to fit a need, same as I feel with the whole Callahan/MSL debacle.

I think Kesler gives the Rangers a lot of what they need to be a better team in the playoffs, which is an upgrade, and none of those things are ever going to come from Stepan no matter how long they hang onto him.

Well you have 10 years of a productive Stepan left over 2-3 of a productive Kesler. That's the thing.

Morphinity
03-04-2014, 11:11 AM
Well you have 10 years of a productive Stepan left over 2-3 of a productive Kesler. That's the thing.

That, and if you can get Stepan somewhere between his two extremes - at about 65-70 points in an 82 game season - then I'd rather have that. Plus, if he continues to be this bad, his next contract won't be so huge! :D

Phil in Absentia
03-04-2014, 11:11 AM
Well you have 10 years of a productive Stepan left over 2-3 of a productive Kesler. That's the thing.

Yup. I agree. Same as you have say four or five years of a productive Callahan (let's just go with it) versus two (probably more) on MSL.

The teams that make moves like this often do so knowing this. They sacrifice long-term stability for short-term success.

In the Kesler/Stepan situation, I'd probably do it. Probably. I wouldn't give them much more than that, though. That business about a first-round pick, top center and prospect? Nah. I'd give them Stepan and some low-level nothing like Kristo. That's it.

Pete
03-04-2014, 11:14 AM
Yup. I agree. Same as you have say four or five years of a productive Callahan (let's just go with it) versus two (probably more) on MSL.

The teams that make moves like this often do so knowing this. They sacrifice long-term stability for short-term success.

In the Kesler/Stepan situation, I'd probably do it. Probably. I wouldn't give them much more than that, though. That business about a first-round pick, top center and prospect? Nah. I'd give them Stepan and some low-level nothing like Kristo. That's it.

But I only do it at the deadline. Not over the summer. This team, this window, right now. Next year's team will be different. Some players might not be as good next year as they are now.

Phil in Absentia
03-04-2014, 11:16 AM
But I only do it at the deadline. Not over the summer. This team, this window, right now. Next year's team will be different. Some players might not be as good next year as they are now.

Yup. Just like how we wanted the Nash deal done.

I'd do Stepan and some irrelevant prospect for Kesler now, for the playoffs now and probably do Callahan and Boyle or whatever combo for St. Louis (and Thompson??) and just go for it. All in.

dome
03-04-2014, 11:28 AM
Kesler is a significant upgrade over Stepan in terms of what he can handle on the ice, but you're not getting more points. If your centers are giving you 200 points (60 x 3 then 20 for the 4th liner), you can't flip one for MSL or something, and add Lindberg. That's not a wise move, IMO. Stepan + for Kesler, and maybe not even plus. They are getting younger and cost certain player who JT loves.

That's debatable.

At even-strength the variables are not comparable.

NYR2711
03-04-2014, 11:29 AM
Well you have 10 years of a productive Stepan left over 2-3 of a productive Kesler. That's the thing.

This is exactly why I wouldn't move Step for Kessler.

Phil in Absentia
03-04-2014, 11:31 AM
This is exactly why I wouldn't move Step for Kessler.

Which is a fair concern, but I'd ask, what are you in the market for? A Cup?

If so, who gets you closer to one now — Stepan or Kesler? That's the mentality you have to take, IMO, in dealing for veteran players.

It's now versus potential. Same with MSL.

NYR2711
03-04-2014, 11:34 AM
Which is a fair concern, but I'd ask, what are you in the market for? A Cup?

If so, who gets you closer to one now — Stepan or Kesler? That's the mentality you have to take, IMO, in dealing for veteran players.

It's now versus potential. Same with MSL.

Right now, we aren't winning the cup with Kesler or MSL this year, and you have to take it one year at a time. Your replacing Step with an older, more physical version, and the only upgrade would be MSL over Cally, but you don't know what else your losing in that deal. We aren't 1 piece away right now like we all hoped. We need more, and Im not ready to move Step yet for an older player on his decline. Plus, since Kesler and AV have issues as it is, what if he doesn't pan out here. That is another major thing to think about, we don't need any locker room divides again between players and coaches.

Phil in Absentia
03-04-2014, 11:37 AM
Right now, we aren't winning the cup with Kesler or MSL this year, and you have to take it one year at a time. Your replacing Step with an older, more physical version, and the only upgrade would be MSL over Cally, but you don't know what else your losing in that deal. We aren't 1 piece away right now like we all hoped. We need more, and Im not ready to move Step yet for an older player on his decline. Plus, since Kesler and AV have issues as it is, what if he doesn't pan out here. That is another major thing to think about, we don't need any locker room divides again between players and coaches.

You don't know that.

I'd take my chances. I think with one, or both, the team is measurably better, and has a measurably increased chance in the post-season.

The Kesler/AV thing isn't concrete either. Check the Kes thread for more on that from McKenzie this morning.

NYR2711
03-04-2014, 11:40 AM
You don't know that.

I'd take my chances. I think with one, or both, the team is measurably better, and has a measurably increased chance in the post-season.

The Kesler/AV thing isn't concrete either. Check the Kes thread for more on that from McKenzie this morning.

I don't have an issue with brining in Kesler, I do have one in moving Stepan for him though. Id move Brassard over Stepan honestly first.

G1000
03-04-2014, 11:56 AM
I don't have an issue with brining in Kesler, I do have one in moving Stepan for him though. Id move Brassard over Stepan honestly first.

I think most of us would, but you need to give to get.

Frankly, I like how Brass fits with our system rather well. He's ideal as a mid-6 center in a Vigneault system.

Pete
03-04-2014, 12:00 PM
I think most of us would, but you need to give to get.

Frankly, I like how Brass fits with our system rather well. He's ideal as a mid-6 center in a Vigneault system.

Nope.

Phil in Absentia
03-04-2014, 12:01 PM
Yeah, count me out on moving Brass over Stepan. No way. I take skill and finesse on this team all day every day over "two-way" play.

Parsley
03-05-2014, 08:54 PM
This guy.....:mad:

Drew a Penalty
03-05-2014, 08:57 PM
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/lilypad12345678901/Slamminghead_zps20f47d37.gif

Why can't you be good again?

So Nashty
03-05-2014, 09:21 PM
...as he gets the assist on dom moore's goal :rofl:

Drew a Penalty
03-05-2014, 09:21 PM
...as he gets the assist on dom moore's goal :rofl:

Nah fuck that guy. We need more.

So Nashty
03-05-2014, 09:23 PM
I totally agree just thought the timing was funny. Dudes been in slow mo all season long.

LyNX
03-05-2014, 09:25 PM
I totally agree just thought the timing was funny. Dudes been in slow mo all season long.

Paging Barbara Underhill...

So Nashty
03-05-2014, 09:27 PM
Been more than just his skating though. Looks like his thought process in general is one step behind.

brooklynsour
03-05-2014, 09:49 PM
Dam you guys seem a bit harsh on step making this thread... Remember he didn't have an off season with the team, since his contract was in limbo and Sather prolonged it longer than it should've been

Drew a Penalty
03-05-2014, 09:53 PM
Dam you guys seem a bit harsh on step making this thread... Remember he didn't have an off season with the team, since his contract was in limbo and Sather prolonged it longer than it should've been

I'm a huge Stepan fan and I completely disagree with that logic. Both sides dragged it on longer than needed, but Stepan has only proven this season that he isn't yet worth the extension he was seeking. If he wanted to prove he was worth it he should have come out hungry, instead he looks disinterested. It's also not up to the team for him to do well. He only missed preseason with the team. His problem is not how well he fits on the team, it's how he makes use of his skill to make up for his shortcomings. He had an entire summer to improve upon his good season. Instead he regressed. That's not Sather's doing nor is what Stepan does for the entirety of the summer prior to camp in the team's control.

Parsley
03-05-2014, 10:04 PM
:mad:

Phil in Absentia
03-05-2014, 10:05 PM
Dam you guys seem a bit harsh on step making this thread... Remember he didn't have an off season with the team, since his contract was in limbo and Sather prolonged it longer than it should've been

Yeah, because he held out on the team.

brooklynsour
03-05-2014, 10:12 PM
I'm a huge Stepan fan and I completely disagree with that logic. Both sides dragged it on longer than needed, but Stepan has only proven this season that he isn't yet worth the extension he was seeking. If he wanted to prove he was worth it he should have come out hungry, instead he looks disinterested. It's also not up to the team for him to do well. He only missed preseason with the team. His problem is not how well he fits on the team, it's how he makes use of his skill to make up for his shortcomings. He had an entire summer to improve upon his good season. Instead he regressed. That's not Sather's doing nor is what Stepan does for the entirety of the summer prior to camp in the team's control.

Hard to disagree all valid points.... But I feel like since he was going into the season w.out a ranger contract he was being lazy and not doing much on improvement which is all his fault... I also WANNA believe he's still adjusting to AV system... I hope he gets back on track we know the potential is there....

Drew a Penalty
03-05-2014, 10:17 PM
Hard to disagree all valid points.... But I feel like since he was going into the season w.out a ranger contract he was being lazy and not doing much on improvement which is all his fault... I also WANNA believe he's still adjusting to AV system... I hope he gets back on track we know the potential is there....

If he conducts himself in such a lazy manner then he has no place on the team. I would hope no professional athlete would be so lazy in their preparation for a new season when the off season is really very short.

I also doubt he's adapting to AV's system. He would know it by now. He's played all 62 games. That's more than enough time to get it through his head. He doesn't need these excuses.

He's playing like shit, he came into the season looking like shit, and he deserves to be treated like shit until he gets his shit together. Until then he'll come under as much criticism as he deserves because he's held at a high standard.

Morphinity
03-05-2014, 10:17 PM
I'm a huge Stepan fan and I completely disagree with that logic. Both sides dragged it on longer than needed, but Stepan has only proven this season that he isn't yet worth the extension he was seeking. If he wanted to prove he was worth it he should have come out hungry, instead he looks disinterested. It's also not up to the team for him to do well. He only missed preseason with the team. His problem is not how well he fits on the team, it's how he makes use of his skill to make up for his shortcomings. He had an entire summer to improve upon his good season. Instead he regressed. That's not Sather's doing nor is what Stepan does for the entirety of the summer prior to camp in the team's control.

Good post. I really hope for the best with him. I think he's a solid 2nd line center. Would be nice to see more consistent eyeball appealing play out of him.

Drew a Penalty
03-05-2014, 10:20 PM
Good post. I really hope for the best with him. I think he's a solid 2nd line center. Would be nice to see more consistent eyeball appealing play out of him.

I think we all hope the best, and I hope this was just his belated slump season a la Duchene. He just needs to get his shit together. Chances are we don't see that this year at all, but something has to click in his mind. I just hope he's not content with his play.

brooklynsour
03-05-2014, 10:21 PM
If he conducts himself in such a lazy manner then he has no place on the team. I would hope no professional athlete would be so lazy in their preparation for a new season when the off season is really very short.

I also doubt he's adapting to AV's system. He would know it by now. He's played all 62 games. That's more than enough time to get it through his head. He doesn't need these excuses.

He's playing like shit, he came into the season looking like shit, and he deserves to be treated like shit until he gets his shit together. Until then he'll come under as much criticism as he deserves because he's held at a high standard.

I guess your right, nm else I can say in his defense lol

Ba Ba Bluey
03-06-2014, 10:27 AM
They need to break that 1st line up...very stale and they're not generating shit.

RichieNextel305
03-06-2014, 10:35 AM
I'd give Nash a shot with 19 & 26.

Pete
03-06-2014, 12:04 PM
I'd give Nash a shot with 19 & 26.

Nash has shown he's better on the right, as has MSL. You also can't load up one line, as we've seen already. We have 3 solid lines when Zuke comes back. I wasn't happy with Hagelin's game, but in hindsight — It's just one game.

So Nashty
03-06-2014, 12:36 PM
Thought hags looked OK but I think we can do better than him on the first line. I know he has been the invisible man lately but I would actually love to see Kreider with Richards and MSL.

Puck Head
03-06-2014, 12:39 PM
Nash has shown he's better on the right, as has MSL. You also can't load up one line, as we've seen already. We have 3 solid lines when Zuke comes back. I wasn't happy with Hagelin's game, but in hindsight — It's just one game.

This

cheikh75
03-06-2014, 03:45 PM
They need to break that 1st line up...very stale and they're not generating shit.

Yes, I really don't understant why Derek is still on 1st line

brooklynsour
03-06-2014, 04:37 PM
+1 Pete.... On the pp I'd like to see them together, maybe 26, 21(in front of net) 61, 19-27 on point, 2nd would be 36 16 than either 62/67, 20-22 (net presence) with either 5,6, 17, 18, 4 on the blue line

RichieNextel305
03-06-2014, 04:45 PM
Nash has shown he's better on the right, as has MSL. You also can't load up one line, as we've seen already. We have 3 solid lines when Zuke comes back. I wasn't happy with Hagelin's game, but in hindsight — It's just one game.

While I do agree, if you did have St. Louis move over to the left side and that line did do some damage, you're still not damaging the teams best line all season, which has been Brassard centering Pouliot and Zuccarello. If they can continue to contribute, and if St. Louis, Richards and Nash all clicked, you'd have 2 lines that could do some damage, on top of whatever you can get with Kreider, Hagelin and Stepan.

I wouldn't be too opposed to giving it atleast a look. If it clicks, then you have 2 lines that can score.

Pete
03-06-2014, 05:04 PM
While I do agree, if you did have St. Louis move over to the left side and that line did do some damage, you're still not damaging the teams best line all season, which has been Brassard centering Pouliot and Zuccarello. If they can continue to contribute, and if St. Louis, Richards and Nash all clicked, you'd have 2 lines that could do some damage, on top of whatever you can get with Kreider, Hagelin and Stepan.

I wouldn't be too opposed to giving it atleast a look. If it clicks, then you have 2 lines that can score.

I see no reason to move a career RW to the left side. That's the type of stuff that people railed Torts over RE: Gaborik. There is no reason at all to make that change, whatsoever. If Hagelin continues to struggle, you change what is broke. Not what isn't.

Kreider Richards MSL
Pouliot Brassard MZA
Hagelin Stepan Nash
4th.

Which does leave us lacking characters on the right side. :rofl:

So Nashty
03-06-2014, 06:46 PM
I see no reason to move a career RW to the left side. That's the type of stuff that people railed Torts over RE: Gaborik. There is no reason at all to make that change, whatsoever. If Hagelin continues to struggle, you change what is broke. Not what isn't.

Kreider Richards MSL
Pouliot Brassard MZA
Hagelin Stepan Nash
4th.

Which does leave us lacking characters on the right side. :rofl:

Nash on the third line. Zuccarello on the second. I like this lol

dome
03-06-2014, 07:00 PM
MZA has played on the left before, he don't care. MZA can play anywhere he don't give a fuck

Kreider Richards MSL
MZA Brassard Nash
Hagelin Stepan Pouliot

that's the lineup that AV needs to 'find'

Pete
03-06-2014, 08:17 PM
No need to break up PouBraZoo.

!br-avery!
03-06-2014, 08:25 PM
Stepan has been a step behind all season,chalk it up as a down year hopefully

quick release
03-06-2014, 08:53 PM
3rd line:

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nhl/players/full/1569.png&w=350&h=254

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nhl/players/full/5731.png&w=350&h=254

http://i58.tinypic.com/2ahihsj.png

DiJock94
03-06-2014, 09:15 PM
I see no reason to move a career RW to the left side. That's the type of stuff that people railed Torts over RE: Gaborik. There is no reason at all to make that change, whatsoever. If Hagelin continues to struggle, you change what is broke. Not what isn't.

Kreider Richards MSL
Pouliot Brassard MZA
Hagelin Stepan Nash
4th.

Which does leave us lacking characters on the right side. :rofl:

Agree completely with these lines

NYR2711
03-06-2014, 09:40 PM
No need to break up PouBraZoo.

Plus, last year wasnt it Hags-Step-Nash that was working good?

Bretzky
03-06-2014, 10:33 PM
No need to break up PouBraZoo.

I agree, but I also wouldn't mind just switching out Brass for Step and see if it helps.

I honestly think Kreider and Nash might wake up if they're moved away from Stepan right now.

Hagelin Richards St. Louis
Kreider Brassard Nash
Pouliot Stepan Zuccarello


or...

Pouliot Richards St. Louis
Hagelin Brassard Nash
Kreider Stepan Zuccarello


or finally...

Hagelin Richards St. Louis
Pouliot Brassard Nash
Kreider Stepan Zuccarello

I really like the last one.

Kreider-Stepan-Zuccarello was our best line early on.

PooBrass duo with Nash, plus pouliot's big Nash-ish body type could work well there.

Drew a Penalty
03-09-2014, 02:58 PM
9 points in 6 straight games. Please don't go back to being useless.